Thy Kingdom Come, Thy will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven.

[Trailblazer]

What is false about 1st Corinthians 15:24-26; Isaiah 25:8 _______________________________________

www.jw.org

1st Corinthians 15
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

Imo, those verses above are absolutely false, since Jesus Christ is never going to do any of the things that those verses say.
NEVER did Jesus promise to so ANY of those things. They are only things Paul believes that Jesus would do.

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

Jesus had no more work to do when Jesus left this Earth and ascended to Heaven. At that very moment, the reign of Jesus over Earth ended.
Christians just cannot face reality. Jesus is alive in Heaven at the right hand of God, but he will never again affect this Earth.
The Dispensation of Jesus is over.

1st Corinthians 15
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

Physical death is not the enemy and physical death will never be destroyed because God created humans to be mortal.
The only kind of death that will be destroyed is spiritual death.


Isaiah 25
8 He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord God will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the Lord hath spoken it.
9 And it shall be said in that day, Lo, this is our God; we have waited for him, and he will save us: this is the Lord; we have waited for him, we will be glad and rejoice in his salvation.

None of the verses above are about Jesus. They are referring to the return of Christ who is also the long awaited Lord of Hosts, which is not and never will be Jesus.

“The fear of God is the shield that defendeth His Cause, the buckler that enableth His people to attain to victory. It is a standard that no man can abase, a force that no power can rival. By its aid, and by the leave of Him Who is the Lord of Hosts, they that have drawn nigh unto God have been able to subdue and conquer the citadels of the hearts of men.” (Gleanings, p. 272)

Bahá'í Reference Library - Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, Pages 270-272

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Originally there was No physical death for Adam & Eve
Breaking God's law of Gen. 2:17 introduced death on Earth
Jesus reversed that death sentence; eliminating death starting with Jesus 1,000 year reign over Earth - 1st Cor. 15:24-26; Isaiah 25:8
There is No death in Heaven, No tomb stones in Heaven, No cemeteries in Heaven, the temporary death problem is here on Earth
God did Not abandon His original purpose to have Earth filled with righteous people - Gen. 1:28
Satan and Adam just temporarily interrupted God's purpose
God send Jesus to be the antidote to the death problem here on Earth

 

[Trailblazer]

The 'anointed one' of verse 2 B is the 'anointed one' of Isaiah 61:1 aka Jesus - Luke 4:17-21

The following verses are about Jesus. We know that because they are in the New Testament. We also know they are about Jesus because Jesus was anointed to preach the gospel to the poor; to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised.

Luke 4
17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,
18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.

The following verses are not about Jesus. They are not the words of Jesus, they are the words of the prophet Isaiah.
The acceptable year of the Lord, and the day of vengeance of our God, is when Christ will return.

Isaiah 61
The Spirit of the Lord God is upon me; because the Lord hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;
2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;
3 To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the Lord, that he might be glorified.
21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Thank you for the above information
End of what ages__________ In the Bible it is the end times of badness on Earth
In the Bible the book of Revelation is a revealing of the happy climax found at Revelation 22:2
There is coming 'healing' for earth's nations

I see that has all unfolded verse 2 most likely between the river Euphrates and the river Tigris, in the Garden of Ridvan.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

2nd Peter 3:5,7,13 speaks of (3) three heavens and earths

Since the time of Jesus, I would offer those 3 heaven and earth (Gods Word and Law), were brought by Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah.

The First Woe, Muhammad, the 2nd Woe the Bab and the 3rd Woe, that comes quickly, was Baha'u'llah.

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

Originally there was No physical death for Adam & Eve
Breaking God's law of Gen. 2:17 introduced death on Earth

That is not in the Bible. It is only a false Christian doctrine.

Jesus reversed that death sentence; eliminating death starting with Jesus 1,000 year reign over Earth - 1st Cor. 15:24-26; Isaiah 25:8

Jesus did not reverse death. All Jesus did was offer us eternal life, which we attain by knowing God and Jesus.

John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

There is No death in Heaven, No tomb stones in Heaven, No cemeteries in Heaven, the temporary death problem is here on Earth

Of course there is no death in Heaven. Those who are in Heaven have already died.
Death is not a temporary problem, it is a permanent problem, but it is only a problem for those who are left behind to grieve their loved ones.

God did Not abandon His original purpose to have Earth filled with righteous people - Gen. 1:28
Satan and Adam just temporarily interrupted God's purpose
God send Jesus to be the antidote to the death problem here on Earth

Nowhere does the Bible say that God sent Jesus to be the antidote to the 'death problem' here on Earth.
That is yet one more false teaching of the JW church that was created by misinterpretation of various Bible verses.

Do JWs ever bother to think, or do they just believe what their church tells them?

If there was no more death, how could people continue to be born? The world would soon become overpopulated.
That is not to mention all the dead people that JWs believe will rise from their graves and live forever on Earth.

Only JWs believe that no more death means no more physical death. All the other Christians know what it really means.

AI Overview
Learn more…

"There shall be no more death" is a phrase from the Bible verse Revelation 21:4, which describes a future state where God will wipe away tears and suffering from his people:

	Revelation 21:4
Verse	"And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away"

This verse is a source of comfort and hope for believers, and has profound implications for Christian theology. It promises that suffering is temporary, and that a glorious, eternal existence awaits people in the presence of God. It also challenges Christians to embody the values of love, compassion, and justice in the present age.

 

[BrokenBread]

It's asking for a theocracy in my view.
I would say only Muhammad achieved this in his lifetime, although Jesus followers established theocracy in various places after his lifetime.

I know Baha'i have theocratic ambitions in my view, but as of yet neither Baha'u'llah nor his followers have achieved theocracy (although I could be wrong about Baha'u'llah's followers in some small villages).

Jesus never forced Himself on anyone
Your statement shows a lack of understanding
Jesus never forced Himself on anyone and never will , therefore people will always have choice even at His re- appearing.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I see that has all unfolded verse 2 most likely between the river Euphrates and the river Tigris, in the Garden of Ridvan.
Regards Tony

Interesting connection above to Genesis 2:10-14 ( Hiddekel is now the Tigris )
Ezekiel 47:1,12 is in connection to Revelation 22:1-2 symbolic for the 'water of life '
Thus the trees are well watered for the ' healing of earth's nations ' ( all earth's nations)

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Jesus never forced Himself on anyone
Your statement shows a lack of understanding
Jesus never forced Himself on anyone and never will , therefore people will always have choice even at His re- appearing.

Or, to me a choice 'until' King Jesus' coming at the soon time of separation - Matthew 25:31-34,37,40
Perhaps once the powers in charge are saying, " Peace and Security...." 1st Thess. 5:2-3 - those rosy-sounding words won't full everyone and people could still have a chance to side with Jesus until Jesus separates the figurative sheep from the goats

 

[URAVIP2ME]

.......................................... If there was no more death, how could people continue to be born? The world would soon become overpopulated.
That is not to mention all the dead people that JWs believe will rise from their graves and live forever on Earth.
Only JWs believe that no more death means no more physical death. All the other Christians know what it really means.
AI Overview
Learn more…
"There shall be no more death" is a phrase from the Bible verse Revelation 21:4, which describes a future state where God will wipe away tears and suffering from his people:

	Revelation 21:4
Verse	"And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away"

This verse is a source of comfort and hope for believers, and has profound implications for Christian theology. It promises that suffering is temporary, and that a glorious, eternal existence awaits people in the presence of God. It also challenges Christians to embody the values of love, compassion, and justice in the present age.

Did you ever consider Genesis 1:28 ____________ ( which was before Adam&Eve sinned )
Please notice that Earth was to be populated ( Not over populated, Not over filled with people with living-forever people )
In other words, God's purpose was that people were to multiply and 'fill' (populate) the Earth then cease reproducing.
Thus, people were to become MANY and then reproduction would stop.

Yes, ' death' shall be No more ( There is No death problem in Heaven ) so death can't be a former thing in Heaven
Jesus does Not do away with death in Heaven - 1st Corinthians 15:24-26 - death problem is on Earth
Doesn't Isaiah 25:8 tell us death will be swallowed up forever in connection to Earth _________

Overview: learn more - www.jw.org

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Since the time of Jesus, I would offer those 3 heaven and earth (Gods Word and Law), were brought by Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah.
The First Woe, Muhammad, the 2nd Woe the Bab and the 3rd Woe, that comes quickly, was Baha'u'llah.
Regards Tony

I find it of interest that you connect about a 'woe' that comes quickly' because 1st Thess. 5:2-3 also connects 'woe' with coming quickly' as a thief quickly comes by surprise !

In Noah's Day that 'woe' (flood) came hard and fast
In the year 70 when un-faithful Jerusalem was destroyed that 'woe' came hard and fast
So, at the time of Armageddon the pattern will be: that 'woe' will also be hard and fast

 

[Trailblazer]

Did you ever consider Genesis 1:28 ____________ ( which was before Adam&Eve sinned )
Please notice that Earth was to be populated ( Not over populated, Not over filled with people with living-forever people )
In other words, God's purpose was that people were to multiply and 'fill' (populate) the Earth then cease reproducing.
Thus, people were to become MANY and then reproduction would stop.

The Bible does not say that God's purpose was that people were to multiply and 'fill' (populate) the Earth and then cease reproducing.
That is only a JW dogma based upon a gross misinterpretation of the Bible.

For no new people to be born and get to experience life on this Earth just because the JWS want to live on Earth forever, is patently absurd.
It is not only absurd, it is completely selfish, and not supported by the Bible in any way.

The JW church has sold you a bill of goods.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

The Bible does not say that God's purpose was that people were to multiply and 'fill' (populate) the Earth and then cease reproducing.
.....................................................................................................................................................

Genesis 1:28 says multiply and fill the Earth ( with forever-living people )
If people were to go past Genesis 1:28 then Earth would be over-populated, over filled
So, the time would come when reproducing on Earth would stop

- www.jw.org

 

[Trailblazer]

Genesis 1:28 says multiply and fill the Earth ( with forever-living people )
If people were to go past Genesis 1:28 then Earth would be over-populated, over filled
So, the time would come when reproducing on Earth would stop

- www.jw.org

Genesis 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

Genesis 1:28 does not say multiply and fill the Earth with forever-living people.

Reproducing on Earth does not have to stop, because as people are born other people die.
The reason that the Earth is not overpopulated is because people die when new people are born.

This is all according to God's design.
Human bodies were never created to be immortal. They were created to be born, live on Earth, and then die.

When the physical body dies, we will get a spiritual body which will be suited to live forever in the Kingdom of God which is in Heaven.

1 Corinthians 15 New Living Translation

35 But someone may ask, “How will the dead be raised? What kind of bodies will they have?”
40 There are also bodies in the heavens and bodies on the earth. The glory of the heavenly bodies is different from the glory of the earthly bodies. 41 The sun has one kind of glory, while the moon and stars each have another kind. And even the stars differ from each other in their glory.

42 It is the same way with the resurrection of the dead. Our earthly bodies are planted in the ground when we die, but they will be raised to live forever. 43 Our bodies are buried in brokenness, but they will be raised in glory. They are buried in weakness, but they will be raised in strength. 44 They are buried as natural human bodies, but they will be raised as spiritual bodies. For just as there are natural bodies, there are also spiritual bodies.

50 What I am saying, dear brothers and sisters, is that our physical bodies cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. These dying bodies cannot inherit what will last forever.

51 But let me reveal to you a wonderful secret. We will not all die, but we will all be transformed!

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Not only will the wicked die they will be ' destroyed forever ' - Psalms 92:7; 104:35; 145:20; Proverbs 2:22

 

[danieldemol]

Jesus never forced Himself on anyone

I never claimed he did the first time around

Your statement shows a lack of understanding

So you claim but have not demonstrated in my view.

Jesus never forced Himself on anyone and never will , therefore people will always have choice even at His re- appearing.

This is not according to the Biblical narrative in my view.

The Biblical narrative is that Jesus came to establish his kingdom in the hearts the first time round until the time of his second coming when He and the disciples would rule this world
as conquering king along with the disciples to "rule them1 with an iron scepter" Revelation 2:27

1(ie the nations).

Here is Revelation 2:26-27(NIV)
'To the one who is victorious and does my will to the end, I will give authority over the nations— 27 that one ‘will rule them with an iron scepter and will dash them to pieces like pottery’—just as I have received authority from my Father.'

I would suggest that being ruled with an iron scepter or being dashed to pieces like pottery is not much of a choice, and certainly forceful in my view.

 

[BrokenBread]

I never claimed he did the first time around

So you claim but have not demonstrated in my view.

This is not according to the Biblical narrative in my view.

The Biblical narrative is that Jesus came to establish his kingdom in the hearts the first time round until the time of his second coming when He and the disciples would rule this world
as conquering king along with the disciples to "rule them1 with an iron scepter" Revelation 2:27

1(ie the nations).

Here is Revelation 2:26-27(NIV)
'To the one who is victorious and does my will to the end, I will give authority over the nations— 27 that one ‘will rule them with an iron scepter and will dash them to pieces like pottery’—just as I have received authority from my Father.'

I would suggest that being ruled with an iron scepter or being dashed to pieces like pottery is not much of a choice, and certainly forceful in my view.

Your lack of biblical understand is as solid as ever.
The people being dashed to pieces are the same people that hate Him and have made their decision to try and kill Him one more time for old times sake .when He comes.

 

[danieldemol]

Your lack of biblical understand is as solid as ever.

Your ability to ad-hominem people instead of addressing the point is as solid as ever.

The people being dashed to pieces are the same people that hate Him and have made their decision to try and kill Him one more time for old times sake .when He comes.

The text doesn't say that in my view, it says "the nations". Most people of the nations once you cut out totalitarian regimes are indifferent to delusional street preachers and wouldn't even bother sending them to a mental institution unless they were a source of demonstrable harm to others.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Here is Revelation 2:26-27(NIV)
'To the one who is victorious and does my will to the end, I will give authority over the nations— 27 that one ‘will rule them with an iron scepter and will dash them to pieces like pottery’—just as I have received authority from my Father.'

I would suggest that being ruled with an iron scepter or being dashed to pieces like pottery is not much of a choice, and certainly forceful in my view.

You are trying an interpretation of scripture without authority, I too can do that, but use the keys given by Baha'u'llah and explained by Abdul'baha.

The issue we both face is that of our own purity of heart and our ability to see what passages are describing spiritually, as this is not a material story about a human ruler sitting on a throne with an iron sceptre dashing people to pieces.

Having the bounty of knowing the Message of the Bab and Baha’u’llah has been already unfolding since 1844, we can see these verses are not about a ruling theocracy in the way people see current Theocracies.

There are passages that give some further meditation on the verse you quoted.

Isaiah 30:14
It will break in pieces like a potter's jar, shattered so that no fragment can be found. Not a shard will be found in the dust large enough to scoop the coals from a hearth or to skim the water from a cistern."

So this verse brings in another level we need to understand about what it means to shatter a potters jar.

My current thoughts are tending towards the abolition of the old way of the rule of the world, smashing the power of theocratic religions, monarchies of emperors, dictatorships, age old dynasties, like in the next verse.

Jeremiah 19:11
and you are to proclaim to them that this is what the LORD of Hosts says: I will shatter this nation and this city, like one shatters a potter's jar that can never again be repaired. They will bury the dead in Topheth until there is no more room to bury them.

I can only offer these thoughts, because I know Baha'u'llah is the "Lord of Hosts"

Now I wondered what it meant to dead in Topheth, and this is one explanation

"In the Bible, burying the dead in Tophet was a sign that there was no other place to bury them and that judgment was unavoidable"

Baha'u'llah's judgment issued to the Kings and Rulers was indeed unavoidable and they one and all faced the fate that was written concerning the consequences of their neglect of offer a just rule over the people.

The point of me offering this is, if we want to offer that we see Bible Verses have a clear meaning, that would be erroneous, as they are really as clear as mud to most of us.

Regards Tony

 

[danieldemol]

The point of me offering this is, if we want to offer that we see Bible Verses have a clear meaning, that would be erroneous, as they are really as clear as mud to most of us.

If they are clear as mud then there is no way of telling a true interpretation from that of an imposter in my view Tony. What kind of a God you worship that offers advice that is clear as mud then judges us for understanding it the wrong way.