Thy Kingdom Come, Thy will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven.

[loverofhumanity]

Today is a replica of what happened then in that ‘story’. Today man has turned away from God. You think those fighting in these wars are ‘religious’? Far from it. They have made the material world their God and are killing for material gain. Had they obeyed God and not ‘fallen’ into ‘materialism’ but remained spiritual then we would be living in a veritable paradise compared to now.

The moral of the story of Adam and Eve is not to allow the snake of human desire to tempt us to put materialism over God as it will not end well and it hasn’t with all these wars and destruction going on.

But man has eaten of the tree of materialism and corrupted his spiritual nature and become lower than the animals. Now man is not born with sin but in the image and likeness of God, untarnished. However, materialism and greed has been passed down to generations so we find throughout the centuries man has mostly been involved in wars and material pleasures and following his desires and senses instead of spiritual life. By death spoken of by eating the fruit of the tree of good and evil is meant spiritual death.

Now, the only way to be spiritually reborn again from the spiritual death caused by turning to materialism, is to eat the fruit of the Tree of Life (spiritual tree) This Tree is the Manifestation of God for each age. At one time it was Moses, at yet another Christ. The Tree of Life for today’s modern age is Baha’u’llah. Whoever eats of this fruit will acquire virtues, concepts and beliefs relevant for the needs of this age such as the consciousness of the oneness of all humanity and unity of races, religions and nations.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Trailblazer is a Bahai but she doesn't denigrate Christians or try to convert them so I don't think we should do that either.

At Luke 4:43 Jesus' M.O. (method of operation) is that Jesus preached or taught about God's kingdom (Daniel 2:44)
So, perhaps one could say by hearing what Jesus was saying a person either converts oneself or not - just a thought

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Today is a replica of what happened then in that ‘story’. Today man has turned away from God. You think those fighting in these wars are ‘religious’? Far from it. They have made the material world their God and are killing for material gain. Had they obeyed God and not ‘fallen’ into ‘materialism’ but remained spiritual then we would be living in a veritable paradise compared to now.
The moral of the story of Adam and Eve is not to allow the snake of human desire to tempt us to put materialism over God as it will not end well and it hasn’t with all these wars and destruction going on.
But man has eaten of the tree of materialism and corrupted his spiritual nature and become lower than the animals. Now man is not born with sin but in the image and likeness of God, untarnished. However, materialism and greed has been passed down to generations so we find throughout the centuries man has mostly been involved in wars and material pleasures and following his desires and senses instead of spiritual life. By death spoken of by eating the fruit of the tree of good and evil is meant spiritual death.
Now, the only way to be spiritually reborn again from the spiritual death caused by turning to materialism, is to eat the fruit of the Tree of Life (spiritual tree) This Tree is the Manifestation of God for each age. At one time it was Moses, at yet another Christ. The Tree of Life for today’s modern age is Baha’u’llah. Whoever eats of this fruit will acquire virtues, concepts and beliefs relevant for the needs of this age such as the consciousness of the oneness of all humanity and unity of races, religions and nations.

materialism and worship ?
False worship does Not have to include being materialistic or materialism
By breaking God's Law of Gen. 2:17 Adam set up People Rule as superior to God Rule
Eve was choosing to become her own mother goddess in choosing what is right or wrong

 

[loverofhumanity]

Trailblazer is a Bahai but she doesn't denigrate Christians or try to convert them so I don't think we should do that either.

It brings me so much joy when people like yourself focus on building bridges. I had a Christian pastor visit the other week a really awesome person and we joked a lot. I said that he didn’t have to love me as I was not a Christian but he could consider me his enemy and love me then and we all had a great laugh as you know Jesus said to love ones enemies. But we see Christians as fellow lovers of Jesus and love them.

 

[Trailblazer]

I'd like to add to the ^above^ the words found at 2nd Thess. 2:11-12 because God allows a person to believe errors or lies

So how do you know which Christians are believing in errors and lies?

So, we are speaking about both the genuine Christians as opposed to so-called Christians in name only - Matthew 7:21-23

So how do you know who those genuine Christians are?

Jesus' genuine 'sheep' are the ones who know his voice

So how do you know which Christians hear his voice?

 

[CG Didymus]

The Bible states that God created man in His Own Image which clearly means that man is born pure and free from sin.

Genesis 1: 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

So, as a Baha'i, do you take everything that is said in the Bible as "clearly" meaning what it says? Because somewhere in there it says that our righteousness is like filthy rags.

But anyway, Born Again Christians believe that Adam and Eve were created pure, but then fell. And that caused sin and death to enter the world. And who do those Christians say deceived them and caused them to fall? Satan. A evil spirit being that Baha'is say isn't real.

So, what can I say? Lots of people have their opinions and beliefs based on a few Bible verses to some people that claim to believe the whole thing. None of those beliefs and opinions "clearly" means anything.

Oh, but speaking of Satan and to include his demons. What do Baha'is do with the verses in the Quran that talk about Satan and Jinn? Those verses "clearly" mean what they say? No, I doubt it. Baha'is probably say those verse about Satan in both the Quran and the Bible are symbolic. Would I be correct in assuming that?

 

[CG Didymus]

No, the fall of man from the spiritual state of Garden of Eden, to become subject to nature, to be clothed in a coat of skin and subject to death and have to take other life in order to sustain his own.

It's the whole purpose of the story of Adam ...

Man was created perfect, but lost that perfection

When I first was told about the Baha'i Faith, a lady made a point of telling that Baha'u'llah said that we were created noble, we do we put ourselves down? But it's things in the Bible and the NT that put us down. But then in the Gospels, the "good news", told us what we had to do to get right with God.

Religions are very different and I don't agree with the Baha'i claim that only the "social" laws change. How to get save and getting saved seems to be unique to Christianity. And is not a "social" law, it's very much a spiritual teaching.

 

[CG Didymus]

If you read Revelation chapter 5 it states no man in heaven or earth or under it can unseal the meanings so how can we judge others when we ourselves are told that we cannot unseal the meanings? That One according to Revelation is the Lion of the Tribe of Judah?

Baha’is believe that Baha’u’llah is that Lion and that His interpretations unseal the Books.

Ah... You still have the context wrong. The scroll is unsealed, and then in the end of Revelation it says not to seal up the prophecies in that scroll. That scroll is what keeps getting unsealed in Revelation.

Rev 5:5 Then one of the elders said to me, “Do not weep! See, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has triumphed. He is able to open the scroll and its seven seals.” 6 Then I saw a Lamb, looking as if it had been slain, standing at the center of the throne...​

9 “You are worthy to take the scroll​

and to open its seals,​

because you were slain..."​

12 “Worthy is the Lamb, who was slain."​

Rev 6:1 I watched as the Lamb opened the first of the seven seals.​

Rev 22:10 Then he told me, “Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this scroll...​

This Lamb is the Lion of Judah. This Lamb is who unseals the scroll. Who do Baha'is say this Lamb is?

Anyway, he unseals it and then says to not seal it.

 

[CG Didymus]

It brings me so much joy when people like yourself focus on building bridges. I had a Christian pastor visit the other week

What Christian sect is he? I would guess that it's a liberal sect. If it's a Fundamental, Conservative sect, then that would truly be a miracle.

 

[CG Didymus]

It brings me so much joy when people like yourself focus on building bridges. I had a Christian pastor visit the other week a really awesome person

Hmmm? You got a couple of Christians posting to you here... How's the bridge building going? Does it start with them or you?

But then, where do you start with Christians that are so conservative in how they follow the Bible?

Now if you can build some bridges with them, I will be immensely impressed.

Hint... Don't act as if you know the Bible better than them. That's putting a stick of dynamite under the bridge and pushing down on the plunger.

 

[blü 2]

Imagine a world where everyone is equal. Such a world is the opposite of a kingdom or hierarchy.

The key word there is 'imagine'. The only way I can think of to make 'everyone equal' ─ I can't even imagine a family where 'everyone is equal' ─ is for everyone to be a follower and for no one to be a leader.

For example, all gregarious species of land animal that I can readily think of, humans not least, form groups that have leaders.

 

[loverofhumanity]

So, as a Baha'i, do you take everything that is said in the Bible as "clearly" meaning what it says? Because somewhere in there it says that our righteousness is like filthy rags.

But anyway, Born Again Christians believe that Adam and Eve were created pure, but then fell. And that caused sin and death to enter the world. And who do those Christians say deceived them and caused them to fall? Satan. A evil spirit being that Baha'is say isn't real.

So, what can I say? Lots of people have their opinions and beliefs based on a few Bible verses to some people that claim to believe the whole thing. None of those beliefs and opinions "clearly" means anything.

Oh, but speaking of Satan and to include his demons. What do Baha'is do with the verses in the Quran that talk about Satan and Jinn? Those verses "clearly" mean what they say? No, I doubt it. Baha'is probably say those verse about Satan in both the Quran and the Bible are symbolic. Would I be correct in assuming that?

Baha’is do not interpret the Holy Books. As far as the Bible is concerned in the Old Testament Daniel was told to go his own own way and that the Books were sealed until the time of the end.

Daniel 12:9

And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

In the New Testament it says in Revelation Chapter 5 that no man on earth or in heaven or under the earth can unseal the meanings except One - the Lion of the Tribe of Judah.

Revelation ch 5:2-5

1 And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals. 2 And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof? 3 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.
4 And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.
5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.

In the Quran it says they have but to await its interpretation and that none knowers its meanings except God.

Sura 7:53

53 Do they look for aught else but its interpretation? The day its interpretation comes, those who before forgot it shall say, ́Indeed, our Lord ́s Messengers came with the truth.

Surah 3:7

(3:7) It is He Who has revealed the Book to you. Some of its verses are absolutely clear and lucid, and these are the core of the Book.5 Others are ambiguous.6 Those in whose hearts there is perversity, always go about the part which is ambiguous, seeking mischief and seeking to arrive at its meaning arbitrarily, although none knows their true meaning except Allah

So the correct interpretation of the Holy Books is known to no person. No Christian, Jew, Muslim or Baha’i or any professor or scientist, only God knows it’s correct meaning.

And the Bible says its meaning will be unsealed at the time of the end by the ‘Lion of the Tribe of Judah’ and not any person or preacher or believer.

And the Quran says speaks of a Divine System

Sura 89:22

And your Lord comes, and His angels, rank upon rank. (A great Revolution will come and the Divine System will be established. The Universal forces will line up to that end)

The Guardian of the Baha’i Faith

Kitáb-i-Íqán (Book of Certitude), revealed within the space of two days and two nights, ….broke the “seals” of the “Book” referred to by Daniel, and disclosed the meaning of the “words” destined to remain “closed up” till the “time of the end.” God Passes By)

We nourish your souls for the sake of God; we seek from you neither recompense nor thanks.
Bahá’u’lláh, (The Book of Certitude)

 

[loverofhumanity]

We humans know very little innately. Most of what we have learned has been passed down to us. I always turn to God’s Educators for true knowledge and find that cuts through man’s confusion and conflicting views. According to God’s Manifestations the Kingdom of God has many meanings one of them meaning a Divine System voluntarily adopted by humanity.

 

[Trailblazer]

Religions are very different and I don't agree with the Baha'i claim that only the "social" laws change.

No, not only the social laws change. The message from God changes.

How to get save and getting saved seems to be unique to Christianity. And is not a "social" law, it's very much a spiritual teaching.

How to get saved is not a spiritual teaching. Is is a dogma and Christians don't agree on how we get saved.

A Christian believes --------------------------------?

I had one very good friend who was a Buddhist, with Christian leanings. I met him because I answered his Craigslist ad for some electronics. My late husband and I used to go over to his house and chat and later I kept in touch with him by e-mail, but eventually I lost track of him. There are...

www.religiousforums.com

 

[Trailblazer]

Of course not. But people who discuss a book are at minimum expected to have read the book?

Lots of Christians on this forum are discussing the Bible. Have they read the entire Bible? If not, why do you expect a Baha'i to read the entire Bible?

AI Overview
Learn more…

There are varying estimates for how many Christians have read the entire Bible, ranging from 10% to 31%:

• William Proctor: The editor of the Light Speed Bible estimates that 10% of people have read the Bible from cover to cover.
• Most surveys: Most surveys suggest that 20–25% of people have read the entire Bible.
• Rasmussen Reports: Rasmussen Reports estimates that 31% of people have read the entire Bible.
  

Other statistics on how Americans read the Bible include:

• 11% of Americans read the Bible every day.
• 56% of Americans want to read the Bible more.
• 53% of Americans have read relatively little of the Bible.
• 1 in 10 Americans have never read the Bible.
• 13% of Americans have read a few sentences of the Bible.
• 30% of Americans read several passages or stories of the Bible.
• 22% of Americans read a little bit of the Bible each day.
• 35% of Americans never pick up the Bible.

 

[Truthseeker]

1 in 10 Americans have never read the Bible.

35% of Americans never pick up the Bible.

The first means 10% have never read the Bible. I suppose one could pick up the Bible without reading it. More likely the AI is drawing from sources that contradict each other.

 

[Truthseeker]

Lots of Christians on this forum are discussing the Bible. Have they read the entire Bible? If not, why do you expect a Baha'i to read the entire Bible?

AI Overview
Learn more…

There are varying estimates for how many Christians have read the entire Bible, ranging from 10% to 31%:

• William Proctor: The editor of the Light Speed Bible estimates that 10% of people have read the Bible from cover to cover.
• Most surveys: Most surveys suggest that 20–25% of people have read the entire Bible.
• Rasmussen Reports: Rasmussen Reports estimates that 31% of people have read the entire Bible.

Other statistics on how Americans read the Bible include:

• 11% of Americans read the Bible every day.
• 56% of Americans want to read the Bible more.
• 53% of Americans have read relatively little of the Bible.
• 1 in 10 Americans have never read the Bible.
• 13% of Americans have read a few sentences of the Bible.
• 30% of Americans read several passages or stories of the Bible.
• 22% of Americans read a little bit of the Bible each day.
• 35% of Americans never pick up the Bible.

I have read the whole Bible once, and boy was parts of it dull reading.

 

[Trailblazer]

The first means 10% have never read the Bible. I suppose one could pick up the Bible without reading it. More likely the AI is drawing from sources that contradict each other.

Yes, the sources might contradict each other because Al says: Other statistics on how Americans read the Bible include:

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Good point ^above^ because man's fall came 'after' he was created
Eve did Not even try to 'sneak' or disguise the forbidden fruit into a pie or something but Adam knowingly accepted the fruit from Eve

Man's fall only happens with one's own choices. The story of Adam and Eve being a metephor of our spiritual journey.

We are born in God's Image at the beginning of light and the edge of darkness. The potential is the light. To find our potential we must find the source of the Holy Spirit.

We are born and raised each in their own nature and nurture. Depending upon our parents religious choices, our education will start us on the path to enlightenment or moves us towards the darkness. We then reach the age of maturity and we get to choose our own path.

It is God that gives faith to the hearts. Many children, without correct guidance, are always looking for the potential of that Light, while many, who are given a great start towards the Light, choose darkness instead.

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

Baha’is do not interpret the Holy Books. As far as the Bible is concerned in the Old Testament Daniel was told to go his own own way and that the Books were sealed until the time of the end.

What do Baha'is do then? Just look at the words and put up their hands? That is until the "true" meaning was told to you in the Baha'i writings?

Hmmm? How did Bill Sears come up with his interpretations when he wrote his book?

But I think you're right... Baha'is just blindly follow whatever their religious leaders say.

And that's why Baha'is believe that one verse in Daniel sealed up the meanings of the whole Bible... and, apparently, the New Testament too? And what else?

So, you can't blame Jews and Christians for not understanding their own Scriptures. Their true meaning wasn't revealed until the Baha'i Faith came along, hundreds and hundreds of years later. Now that makes all kinds of sense.

Hey, maybe you can tell me... How does the Baha'i Faith interpret this...

Luke 1:1 Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled[a] among us, 2 just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the word. 3 With this in mind, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, I too decided to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus, 4 so that you may know the certainty of the things you have been taught.​

​

Know for a "certainty"? I don't know. That sounds like the stuff he is about to write is true and really happened. That can't be true can it?