Titanic

[Revoltingest]

Can ice cut steel?

Yes, depending upon circumstances.
Really anything can cut steel.
Water is often used.

Or maybe it was speed that turned a giant mountain of ice into a blade that cut the hull as if it was an aluminium can?
If the speed had been normal, there would have been a dent, or a very small cut.
With a very small damage, the Titanic would have never sunken because it was unsinkable.

I phoned to a former classmate. He is an engineer, now. He confirmed that the absence of high speed would have caused no damage at all. Since it's speed that turns soft materials into hard ones.

I don't trust what your former classmate allegedly says.
There are other factors that that cause ductile materials
to fail in a brittle manner, eg, low temperature, tri-axial
tensile stress. This is basic metallurgy that any materials,
mechanical, marine, or aerospace engineer would know.
(Note that tri-axial compressive stress can cause ductile
deformation of brittle materials.)

 

[Estro Felino]

Yes, depending upon circumstances.
Really anything can cut steel.
Water is often used.

I don't trust what your former classmate allegedly says.
There are other factors that that cause ductile materials
to fail in a brittle manner, eg, low temperature, tri-axial
tensile stress. This is basic metallurgy that any materials,
mechanical, marine, or aerospace engineer would know.
(Note that tri-axial compressive stress can cause ductile
deformation of brittle materials.)

Are you implying that speed was totally irrelevant in the opening of that horizontal gash on the hull?
And the iceberg would have cut the hull anyway, even if the engines of the Titanic had been totally off?

 

[Revoltingest]

Are you implying....

I implied nothing.
I made clear declarative statements.

If we're going to ask each other unproductive
quesitons, then I have some for you....
What steel alloys were used for the hull & rivets?
What was the glass transition temperature for the hull material?
What was the temperature of the water?
Why wasn't the iceberg spotted sooner?

 

[Estro Felino]

I implied nothing.
I made clear declarative statements.

If we're going to ask each other unproductive
quesitons, then I have some for you....
What steel alloys were used for the hull & rivets?
What was the glass transition temperature for the hull material?
What was the temperature of the water?
Why wasn't the iceberg spotted sooner?

We are discussing first grade logic.
Logic that even first graders understand.

Because a first grader knows that higher speed of a means of transport corresponds to bigger damage, in case of accident.

 

[Revoltingest]

We are discussing first grade logic.
Logic that even first graders understand.

Because a first grader knows that higher speed of a means of transport corresponds to bigger damage, in case of accident.

Logic is best when applied to fully
understood cromulent premises.
Yours are simplistic & few.

 

[Estro Felino]

Logic is best when applied to fully
understood cromulent premises.
Yours are simplistic & few.

We jurists are very rational and rely on simplistic and few premises: they are called juridical logic.

For example: a man kills his wife, and the judge sentences him to jail.
The man will probably tell the judge his ruling has been too hasty and based upon few simplistic premises.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Are you implying that speed was totally irrelevant in the opening of that horizontal gash on the hull?
And the iceberg would have cut the hull anyway, even if the engines of the Titanic had been totally off?

I am not so sure that one could instantly turn off the power of those engines, and even if they could it probably would not have made any difference. The momentum of a large ships is huge. It takes them a long time to get up to full speed and it takes just as long for them to slow down from that speed. In just a few hundred feet the liner would not have noticeably slowed without power. Nor could it have sped up very much in such a short span.

 

[Revoltingest]

We jurists are....

....not educated in engineering concepts,
& think like prosecutors, ie, pursue one
idea (right or wrong) using every trick
imaginable to win conviction arguments.

 

[Estro Felino]

I am not so sure that one could instantly turn off the power of those engines, and even if they could it probably would not have made any difference. The momentum of a large ships is huge. It takes them a long time to get up to full speed and it takes just as long for them to slow down from that speed. In just a few hundred feet the liner would not have noticeably slowed without power. Nor could it have sped up very much in such a short span.

The ship left Ireland on April 11.
In order to arrive 370 miles south the Canadian coasts on April 14, they must have sailed at an incredible, unimaginable speed.
Which is roughly 22 knots. Absolutely insane by night and in waters filled with icebergs.
And since they had been warned by six different ships through the telegraph that they were approaching ice fields...well...it was something suicidal. And completely avoidable.

 

[Estro Felino]

....not educated in engineering concepts,
& think like prosecutors, ie, pursue one
idea (right or wrong) using every trick
imaginable to win conviction arguments.

Honestly I have never watched a documentary about the Titanic showing that speed was irrelevant.
if you know one, please link it here. Thank you.

 

[Revoltingest]

Honestly I have never watched a documentary about the Titanic showing that speed was irrelevant.
if you know one, please link it here. Thank you.

You keep addressing the issue of speed being irrelevant.
No one is arguing that.
I recommend re-reading all my posts in this thread.
You'll become better grounded in understanding
the factors involved.

Consider a common kind of airplane accident....
Loss of control is often due to simultaneous problems,
each of which was necessary for the accident to
happen at all.....
- Captain is autocratic.
- Captain is inexperienced.
- Other crew are to meek to object to improper acts by captain.
- Sensors show conflicting readings.
- It takes more time to find & read the applicable section
of the flight manual than the crew has to solve the problem.

The plane went into stall mode, fell from the
sky, & killed all aboard.
Which is the most important problem, if the
elimination of any single one would've meant
the accident wouldn't have happened?
Is it only the speed when hitting the ground?
-

 

[Estro Felino]

You keep addressing the issue of speed being irrelevant.
No one is arguing that.
I recommend re-reading all my posts in this thread.
You'll become better grounded in understanding
the factors involved.

Could you kindly answer my questions, then?

 

[Revoltingest]

Could you kindly answer my questions, then?

Perhaps if you've answered mine in post #123.

 

[Estro Felino]

Why wasn't the iceberg spotted sooner?

Because they were sailing too fast.
So if they had gone slower, the two men would have spotted it twenty minutes earlier or so.

 

[Estro Felino]

Perhaps if you've answered mine in post #123.

"Perhaps".
I see.
No "quid pro quo"?

 

[Revoltingest]

Because they were sailing too fast.

You see only a single reason?
I'm disappointed.

 

[Revoltingest]

"Perhaps".
I see.
No "quid pro quo"?

If you want me to consider answering your questions,
you must first answer mine. Then, & only then, might
I deign to answer.

 

[Estro Felino]

If you want me to consider answering your questions,
you must first answer mine. Then, & only then, might
I deign to answer.

I deeply respect you opinion.
It's ok.

Do you mind me asking just this question? Did you watch James Cameron's Titanic? And if you have, did you like it? Or dislike it?
And why. Thank you.

 

[Revoltingest]

I deeply respect you opinion.
It's ok.

Do you mind me asking just this question? Did you watch James Cameron's Titanic? And if you have, did you like it? Or dislike it?
And why. Thank you.

More questions not preceded by answers?
Oh, that will not do.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

But apparently this could not be done, hence the real-time monitoring.

It could have they just didn't.