To Be or Not To Be: your gender (Vivek R.)

[stvdv]

Thank goodness way less than 1 percent of people have gender dysphoria. Which means that over 99 percent of people do not have it.

What Is Gender Dysphoria?

Gender dysphoria occurs when people experience distress over a mismatch between their assigned gender and gender identity. Learn more about gender dysphoria.

www.verywellmind.com

Sadly, Gender Dysphoria is just one out of 200+ mental disorders. Which means that those other 99% probably fit in one of the other disorders

Which means that we all might find some kind of disorder, when we dare to honestly look at ourselves

 

[stvdv]

I think you may misapprehend what is meant by the term autism spectrum.
The spectrum is not a linear continuum indicating the intensity of symptoms or how 'normal' an autistic person is.

There is no 'end' of the spectrum, it can be more accurately understood with visualizations like this:

View attachment 100020

Nice information
Thank you

 

[Revoltingest]

Some here will try to claim transgender female brains are more similar to cisfemale brains, which is false. Its more or less in-between with diffetences but closer to cismen.

From 2022..

"The classifier performed at 90.2% accuracy (AUC = 0.97) when assessed in the training sample and at 88.3% accuracy (AUC = 0.97) when assessed in our 48 cisgender brains. These measures indicate a suitable classification performance and a reliable distinction between the sexes based on brain anatomy.

The estimated Brain Sex index was significantly different between the three groups (F(2,69) = 40.07, p < 0.001), with a mean of 1.00 ± 0.41 in cisgender men and of 0.00 ± 0.41 in cisgender women. The Brain Sex of transgender women was estimated as 0.75 ± 0.39, thus hovering between cisgender men and cisgender women, albeit closer to cisgender men (see also Figure 1). The follow-up post hoc tests revealed that transgender women were significantly more female than cisgender men (Cohen’s d = 0.64, t(46) = 2.20, p = 0.016), but significantly less female than cisgender women (Cohen’s d = 1.87, t(46) = 6.48, p < 0.001)."

Brain Sex in Transgender Women Is Shifted towards Gender Identity - PMC

Transgender people report discomfort with their birth sex and a strong identification with the opposite sex. The current study was designed to shed further light on the question of whether the brains of transgender people resemble their birth sex or ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

This shows measurable differences in trans & cis brains.
Different groups in the spectrum have large ranges, but
the differences are there. And it could be expected that
trans women brains wouldn't be identical to cis women
brains, given developmental (& perhaps genetic) differences.

 

[stvdv]

I think you may misapprehend what is meant by the term autism spectrum.
The spectrum is not a linear continuum indicating the intensity of symptoms or how 'normal' an autistic person is.

There is no 'end' of the spectrum, it can be more accurately understood with visualizations like this:

View attachment 100020

Do the colors have a specific meaning related to the words, or are these unrelated

 

[We Never Know]

This shows measurable differences in trans & cis brains.
Different groups in the spectrum have large ranges, but
the differences are there. And it could be expected that
trans women brains wouldn't be identical to cis women
brains, given developmental (& perhaps genetic) differences.

What part of my comment of "Its more or less in-between with differences but closer to cismen" did you not understand?

As the study said "were significantly more female than cisgender men but significantly less female than cisgender women" and "hovering between cisgender men and cisgender women, albeit closer to cisgender men"

 

[Revoltingest]

What part of my comment of "Its more or less in-between with differences but closer to cismen" did you not understanding?

That's cute.
<pats him on his little head>

 

[stvdv]

Some here will try to claim transgender female brains are more similar to cisfemale brains, which is false. Its more or less in-between with diffetences but closer to cismen

Thank you, this is interesting information, a bit heavy on the brain of a male, me, seeing it for the first time. Your above summary is what I had expected

And I do understand why they like to claim the opposite. Seems a human habit. And maybe it is true "as you think, so you become".

Most intriguing were the Brain sex graphs shown, and especially seeing that both cis graphs were incredible similar in shape, close to identical, while the transgraph was totally different

I think that the transgraph was of a person after the transition using hormones and surgery.

My first thought was "The trans Brainsex shape" doesn't feel good, but I'm no expert, so I am curious how the experts explain the shape-shift

 

[stvdv]

Sure they can be highly intelligent in ways

but are low in common sense,

lacking the ability to understand many things.

Do these 2, low common sense + lack understanding, catch up, when the Autistic person gets older, or does it stay lower than with people without Autism?

Are there maybe people with different spectrum of autism who have higher common sense, and higher ability to understand?

 

[Argentbear]

Really! You are comparing being left handed and autism to being born with male dna, male sex organs and a female brain

Really? you are so desperate to avoid the point SW made that you are willing to totally misrepresent a post like this?

 

[Argentbear]

What part of being left handed needed medical and psychological treatment?

how many left handed people had their bones broken to force them to use their right hands?

Within living memory they were considered abnormal and immoral just like how many view trans people today.

 

[Argentbear]

Being left handed doesn't affect a person mentally or physically so no comparison.

It cased people to be feared and physically abused. And statistically left-handed people are far more likely to die at a younger age due to accidents.

Autism is a mental disability. Not normal but more common.

It is a mental condition and most people with it are able to lead perfectly normal lives

Are your saying transgender is a mental issue?

would you use that answer to justify hate and prejudice against trans people?

 

[Argentbear]

Actually, within XX and XY - it is that simple and we should be kind to those who are struggling with idendity.

Is propagating false information about a group of people kind?

 

[Argentbear]

Statistically if anything falls out of 95% of the population its considered abnormal.

Like people with type AB blood

 

[Argentbear]

I have to assume I'm one of the targets of this comment? If so, I think you ought to be careful when you start talking about who cares and who doesn't.

For the record, I think it would be great if we had a reliable test to determine which kids with GD would grow out of it naturally (a lot of them), and which would ultimately be happier being trans. That would be fantastic, but no such test currently exists.

and again youth who are actaully trans don't "grow out of it"

So this is a no-win situation, and we have to make hard decisions:

OTOH, we can put kids with GD thru GAC and for some of them, that is the best path. But the downside is that some of the kids who go thru GAC didn't need it, and we've unnecessarily damaged their bodies and medicalized them for life.

that is why WPATH guidelines repeatedly indicate that ever individual has to be treated as unique case and any treatment needs to be tailored specifically to them.

OTOH, we can delay GAC until people are adults. For those people who still want to transition, we know that waiting is not ideal. But for those people who grew out of their GD naturally (which is a lot of them), waiting is the best answer.

No one grows out out of it

Neither approach is perfect. But long, long ago doctors decided that overall "first, do no harm" is the better approach.

But really, stop with the "we don't care" bull****.

not providing care does huge amounts of harm and if you cared you would acknowledge that simple truth

 

[Foxfyre]

Vivek Ramaswamy on Gender dysphoria:
1) It's a mental health condition (esp. in kids)
2) There are only 2 genders

Because these 2 claims contradict:
* Sex you're attracted to is hardwired at birth, a core premise of the gay rights movement.
* Your own biological sex is totally fluid over your life

What do you think?

I am curious how other people think about this.

Vivek Ramaswamy on 2 genders (< 60sec):

Hard to tell Vivek's entire position based on that short clip. It is possible the full context of that conversation could change the perception or not.

But I do believe those who are gay are born that way. I also believe there are two genders, they are not 'fluid', and those who transgender or want to have social/psychiatric issues. Probably few if any choose to have those issues just as those afflicted with certain addictions, anorexia/bulimia, and another abnormal and harmful conditions do not choose to have them. And there are cures and/or treatments for such conditions for those who will accept them.

It is a fact that the vast majority of children/youth who think they want to transgender have changed their minds about that by the time they are adults. And that is why in my opinion it is criminal to do so-called 'gender affirming care' on kids.

 

[Argentbear]

"There has been clear and consistent data showing an increased risk for mood and anxiety disorders in transgender individuals, and there is emerging evidence looking at increased rates of bipolar disorder, post traumatic stress disorder (PTSD), and substance use disorders"

Mental Health Diagnoses Among Transgender Patients in the Clinical Setting: An All-Payer Electronic Health Record Study - PMC

We performed a cross-sectional analysis of the prevalence of psychiatric diagnoses among transgender patients in clinical care using an all-payer electronic health record database. Of 10,270 transgender patients identified, 58% (n=5940) had at least ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

looking at the refence used by your link: Mental health and gender dysphoria: A review of the literature C Dhejne, "There is an small but significant (0.7%) increase in the diagnosis of bipolar 1 disorder of transgendered individuals starting after age 30 indicating that there is an outside factor that is unrecognized at this point."

 

[Argentbear]

Many countries in Europe - with better healthcare systems than the US's - have determined that GAC is flawed, and they are backing away from using it. I think I'm in fine company.

And BTW, I think I have a decent handle on how GAC works.

um No

And there is now good evidence (that aligns with common sense), that even social transitioning of young kids is harmful.

citations?

Do you agree that minors' cognitive abilities are not fully developed? If so, why do you think that in general they're not fully developed, but on this one, super complex and nuanced topic, they can make permanent decisions about "gender", which is an idea adults can't even explain?

who says they are?

 

[icehorse]

Some here will try to claim transgender female brains are more similar to cisfemale brains, which is false. Its more or less in-between with diffetences but closer to cismen.

From 2022..

"The classifier performed at 90.2% accuracy (AUC = 0.97) when assessed in the training sample and at 88.3% accuracy (AUC = 0.97) when assessed in our 48 cisgender brains. These measures indicate a suitable classification performance and a reliable distinction between the sexes based on brain anatomy.

The estimated Brain Sex index was significantly different between the three groups (F(2,69) = 40.07, p < 0.001), with a mean of 1.00 ± 0.41 in cisgender men and of 0.00 ± 0.41 in cisgender women. The Brain Sex of transgender women was estimated as 0.75 ± 0.39, thus hovering between cisgender men and cisgender women, albeit closer to cisgender men (see also Figure 1). The follow-up post hoc tests revealed that transgender women were significantly more female than cisgender men (Cohen’s d = 0.64, t(46) = 2.20, p = 0.016), but significantly less female than cisgender women (Cohen’s d = 1.87, t(46) = 6.48, p < 0.001)."

Brain Sex in Transgender Women Is Shifted towards Gender Identity - PMC

Transgender people report discomfort with their birth sex and a strong identification with the opposite sex. The current study was designed to shed further light on the question of whether the brains of transgender people resemble their birth sex or ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I think that trying to understand whether there are make brains as distinct from females brains is probably a worthy pursuit.

That said, at this stage in our understanding of brains, I think it's massively premature. I think that we know so little about how brains and minds and memory and such work that determining the "sex" of a brain is like trying to build a working spaceship out of cardboard. I think all of the measurements and metrics these studies are citing will end up having correlation / causation issues.

 

[Argentbear]

It is a fact that the vast majority of children/youth who think they want to transgender have changed their minds about that by the time they are adults. And that is why in my opinion it is criminal to do so-called 'gender affirming care' on kids.

This is a common claim but not one supported by evidence

 

[icehorse]

and again youth who are actaully trans don't "grow out of it"

that is why WPATH guidelines repeatedly indicate that ever individual has to be treated as unique case and any treatment needs to be tailored specifically to them.

No one grows out out of it

not providing care does huge amounts of harm and if you cared you would acknowledge that simple truth

I believe you're propagating dangerous lies, and my experience is that - for whatever reasons - you and I cannot have a logical civil debate on this topic.