To The Anti Gay Religious

[Etritonakin]

It's not just about form, even though the lady form is way more attractive but also because of the biological and psychological differences.

more more more more more more why why why why why why why............



IS the lady form more attractive TO YOU.......... partly because OF YOU?

is it the form -or what you associate with the form?

Can a beautiful lady -through a beautiful lady form -express something horribly male?

.....is the form attractive because it is more perfect? or because it is more representative of something?

If the perfect woman existed within a male body?

If within the perfect female form existed a most detestable male?

Do you appreciate what is without before what is within?

Do yo appreciate what is within before what is without?

Do you express love for the person within through their body -

or disregard a person in order to enjoy their body?

do you love each other?

what does that mean?

 

[dgirl1986]

I believe that sex outside of the marriage of a man and a woman is a sin. I don't believe that makes me "anti-gay". That term along with "homophobia" are subjective and inflammatory. I prefer to use neither.

Yes, I know gay people, but nobody super close to me. I've had some good discussions with a friend from work who's gay. I started a thread here a couple of years ago with the intent of asking gays about their sexuality. I have no desire to be ignorant on this or any other subject.

I believe I have a better understanding now, than ever before, on homosexuality. Yet, my understanding is still far less than what many have. I've changed my views on the cause of homosexuality, stereotypes, one's ability to change his/her orientation, and a gay person's overall sense of morality and decency.

Regardless, the nature of homosexuality and homosexuals does not change my view that the "practice" of homosexuality is a sin. But it's not my place to judge those who do so. I also believe that heterosexual cohabitation outside of marriage is a sin. I recognize that the "desire" to be with each other is normal, but the "choice" to act on such a desire outside of marriage is the sin. The same applies to homosexuality in my view.

I have no ill will towards gays. And, I hold to my religious beliefs which run deep. Those beliefs are that there is a loving God, and he wants us to follow his sexual guidelines for our own benefit.

I do think the terms Homophobic and Anti Gay and sometimes incorrectly applied. Anyone who does not agree with homosexual relationships isnt necessarily homophobic and anti gay indicates that someone goes out of their way to voice how wrong they think it is and try to change peoples minds (and/or orientations).

I do not have a problem with people who think it is a sin provided they are not expecting others to join their view and engage in anti gay behaviour.

Did you seek to understand or did you find that one day after a discussion it made sense?

 

[dgirl1986]

more more more more more more why why why why why why why............

the lady form is more attractive TO YOU.......... partly because OF YOU?

...I am kinda speechless that you would feel it is necessary to post such a picture. Hardly seems like the mature thing to do.

I also have no idea what you ware talking about with that question.

is it the form -or what you associate with the form?

Can it not be both since one is physical and one is romantic/intellectual?

.....is the form attractive because it is more perfect? or because it is more representative of something?

Neither. It is just attractive. Just like chocolate is tasty because I find it to be tasty.

If the perfect woman existed within a male body?

If I fell in love with a person who happened to have a penis, I would like to think that the penis would not be a deal breaker for me given that I am not a nymphomaniac that wants to hump the legs of all women...

If I met a woman who used to be a man, I would not have issue with that (as a side note).

If within the perfect female form existed a most detestable male?

That would be shallow. I do not go for people based on looks.

Do you appreciate what is without before what is within?

Do yo appreciate what is within before what is without?

Attractiveness catches the eye but the connection comes from personality.

Do you express love for the person within through their body -

or disregard a person in order to enjoy their body?

please see above

do you love each other?

I have a gf and we have been together for two years. We love each other very much.

what does that mean?

The same thing it means for heterosexuals.

 

[Scott C.]

Did you seek to understand or did you find that one day after a discussion it made sense?

I gradually developed new ideas as more information came out through many sources over the years. All of this created a curiosity in me to ask gays specific questions to better understand. I see no reason that a homosexual would lie about the nature of their feelings or instincts, if that's the right word.

I believe all of the following to be true:

1. God wants us to abstain from sex outside of the marriage of a man and a woman.
2. Some people have same sex attraction (i.e, are gay) and this can't be changed.
3. Gay people should not enter into a heterosexual marriage unless they are indeed sexually attracted to their partner.

The above creates a situation where a gay Mormon man or woman, if he/she wishes to live the faith, must try to abstain from sex for the rest of his or her life. If he/she fails, he/she must recommit and try again. That's a tall order and a difficult challenge. But, I do believe that is what God wants. Why this is part of life, I have no idea, except that sometimes we're expected to do hard things.

 

[Etritonakin]

...I am kinda speechless that you would feel it is necessary to post such a picture. Hardly seems like the mature thing to do.

I also have no idea what you ware talking about with that question.



Can it not be both since one is physical and one is romantic/intellectual?



Neither. It is just attractive. Just like chocolate is tasty because I find it to be tasty.



If I fell in love with a person who happened to have a penis, I would like to think that the penis would not be a deal breaker for me given that I am not a nymphomaniac that wants to hump the legs of all women...

If I met a woman who used to be a man, I would not have issue with that (as a side note).



That would be shallow. I do not go for people based on looks.



Attractiveness catches the eye but the connection comes from personality.



please see above



I have a gf and we have been together for two years. We love each other very much.



The same thing it means for heterosexuals.

It may seem immature -but it is not....

...unless you consider that we are all immature....

My only hope is that you never stop thinking or considering.

I wish you well. Deal with it!

:slap:

 

[dgirl1986]

It may seem immature -but it is not....

...unless you consider that we are all immature....

My only hope is that you never stop thinking or considering.

I wish you well. Deal with it!

:slap:

OK then....

 

[Triumphant_Loser]

more more more more more more why why why why why why why............

I read this in the voice of a twelve year old throwing a temper tantrum.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

more more more more more more why why why why why why why............

IS the lady form more attractive TO YOU.......... partly because OF YOU?

is it the form -or what you associate with the form?

Can a beautiful lady -through a beautiful lady form -express something horribly male?

.....is the form attractive because it is more perfect? or because it is more representative of something?

If the perfect woman existed within a male body?

If within the perfect female form existed a most detestable male?

Do you appreciate what is without before what is within?

Do yo appreciate what is within before what is without?

Do you express love for the person within through their body -

or disregard a person in order to enjoy their body?

do you love each other?

what does that mean?

What the hell is your point with all this nonsense?

 

[Triumphant_Loser]

The above creates a situation where a gay Mormon man or woman, if he/she wishes to live the faith, must try to abstain from sex for the rest of his or her life.

That's a tad unfair of God though, don't you think? "Whoops my bad dude, sorry I screwed up your genetics. Oh well... Have fun living alone and celibate for the rest of your life, while all of the other "normal" people I made go frolicking happily with their significant others."

How cruel can you get?

 

[suncowiam]

That's a tad unfair of God though, don't you think? "Whoops my bad dude, sorry I screwed up your genetics. Oh well... Have fun living alone and celibate for the rest of your life, while all of the other "normal" people I made go frolicking happily with their significant others."

How cruel can you get?

I have to agree this is harsh for a gay Mormon. So would you, Scott, judge a Mormon for being gay since the Mormon is under God's rule? Would you try to convince him/her not to be gay? If you believe this isn't a choice of being gay, then what can the Mormon do? Continue to lie and fake his sexual preference?

There really is no choice for a gay Mormon?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

That's a tad unfair of God though, don't you think? "Whoops my bad dude, sorry I screwed up your genetics. Oh well... Have fun living alone and celibate for the rest of your life, while all of the other "normal" people I made go frolicking happily with their significant others."

How cruel can you get?

Catholicism teaches the same thing. However, Catholicism is a sadomasochistic religion where suffering is viewed as virtuous because it unites us to Jesus and serves as penance. Celibacy was traditionally more lauded than marriage was in older forms of Christianity. I don't think Mormonism has the concept of "redemptive suffering" or prizing of celibacy, so I have no idea what their rationale for god making his children suffer lifelong celibacy is.

 

[Scott C.]

That's a tad unfair of God though, don't you think? "Whoops my bad dude, sorry I screwed up your genetics. Oh well... Have fun living alone and celibate for the rest of your life, while all of the other "normal" people I made go frolicking happily with their significant others."

How cruel can you get?

I believe that God is always good and all things he does are motivated by his love for us. I also believe we willingly chose to be born on earth and knew it would be full of challenges. But, we knew God would be with us, no matter how difficult our circumstances would be.

Why are some people born so deformed that they will never be able to function like a "normal" person? Why do innocent children starve, suffer emotional abuse, or become victims of violence? God's acceptance and support for those who suffer, know no bounds.

Yes, it would be hard to be gay and to also practice abstinence. There are a lot of other challenges in life that others face. I won't try to compare which is the toughest. There have been times when I've told God "this is too hard for me." But I have found that God compensates for us. He brings happiness to us even when we have challenges.

So, I believe that a gay person, who tries to abstain out of faith in God, will be given heavenly support and blessings. And if he slips up, God forgives and will continue to forgive as long as we try. A gay person is no different than me or other heterosexuals. I mess up frequently, but I keep trying. God has never forsaken me, nor will he forsake a homosexual or anyone who deals with any challenge.

 

[Scott C.]

I have to agree this is harsh for a gay Mormon. So would you, Scott, judge a Mormon for being gay since the Mormon is under God's rule? Would you try to convince him/her not to be gay? If you believe this isn't a choice of being gay, then what can the Mormon do? Continue to lie and fake his sexual preference?

There really is no choice for a gay Mormon?

In my opinion as a Mormon, if a gay or lesbian Mormon decides that he/she has no desire to try to abstain from gay sex, and plans to engage in such, then he/she will not be square with the church. They can come to church and be welcome and hopefully they will not be scorned. But they won't be able to fully engage in all things such as the sacrament, church callings, etc. I would hope that they still attend their meetings.

It would not be healthy for a person to live a gay lifestyle, lie about it, and pretend to be living the Mormon faith. Honesty is always the best.

We can't convince anyone to not "be" gay. If I were in a position where my opinion were welcome, I'd encourage a person that "is" gay, to not "act" on his desire. But I'd also make sure he knows that God always loves him and cares about him, even if he messes up.

When I hear of faithful Mormons who are gay and who are trying to abstain from sex, I admire them. Even if they give in to the temptation and then recommit and try again, I admire them even more. When I die and meet my Maker, I fully suspect that the Good Lord may be far less impressed with my life than he is with the efforts of a gay or lesbian who worked hard to be true to the faith, even with failures along the way.

No judgments here.

 

[Scott C.]

I don't think Mormonism has the concept of "redemptive suffering" or prizing of celibacy, so I have no idea what their rationale for god making his children suffer lifelong celibacy is.

You're right about Mormons and no redemptive suffering and not prizing celibacy.

I believe that life can be very, very tough. All experiences can make us stronger. When we're dead and in eternity, we can look back on the hell we called earth and see the good that suffering did for us. The pain will become a distant memory, wiped away, and we will see the wisdom and love in it all.

Now that I made that bleak appraisal of life, let me say that life is great. I see life as full of joy and hope and faith. There's good and there's bad. Life is a school, sometimes of hard knocks. But there is divine purpose to suffering. What an epic mistake it is to think that a loving and all powerful God could not possibly preside over a world full of suffering.

So I put the plight of the Mormon homosexual in the same area as the plight of anyone who has serious obstacles to overcome, in other words, all of us. Once again, I believe that God will help anyone to be happy who's trying to do what they should.

I saw "The Giver". I was moved by the depiction of human joy amidst suffering.

 

[Muffled]

1 Corinthians 7
10 To the married I give this command (not I, but the Lord): A wife must not separate from her husband. 11 But if she does, she must remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must not divorce his wife.

So where is the religious fervor against divorce? Against divorced people remarrying? How many so called christians making hypocritical statement like yours are actually divorced? Why no outcry to illegalize divorce?

I believe you must first admit that you are a hypocrite in need of self-reflection in order to make any progress.

I believe according to the Law of God divorce is legal.

I beleive I have never encountered a person trying to legitimize divorce for the purpose of committing adultery or simply because the person wanted to break the contract. My daughter could legitimize her divorce since it was no sin to divorce the man who beat her. If someone comes on here trying to legitimize a sinful divorce I will fervently oppose him.

I believe you have no basis for that belief.

 

[Etritonakin]

Don't even bother asking. They never give you a straight answer with this one. They are terrified of this question because they can't wiggle their way out of it logically.

I would answer this if the company were more open to actual discussion.


Didn't realize the picture would be upsetting. It was just to demonstrate that the forms themselves are not very different.

 

[Muffled]

I don't really understand why anyone would think so.

I believe you should have no trouble with the concept that those who believe in God as the only one who knows what is good will also believe whatever God says is not good is not good.

 

[Etritonakin]

What the hell is your point with all this nonsense?

lol

If you assume I'm trying to make a point, you will become frustrated.

My only purpose is to promote more profound consideration of various aspects of the subject.

Considering first attractions -all that led up to first attractions -the individual -genetics -environment -education -media -, etc., etc...

....not simply assuming "I was born this way" without having looked into my own brain.



If I am completely heterosexual, what do we absolutely know are the determining factors? If we could put a sexuality test kit and checklist together which was practical.....

what exactly do we absolutely know to look for in my brain/genetics whatever which would absolutely tell me my sexuality?

1-
2-
3-
4-
etc....

 

[Muffled]

Thats one issue that leaves me questioning the moral guidance of the bible. In the gospel its said that love is the sum of the law, the real reason for it. Which means using common sense with these laws, if its retarded and based on ignorance then it needs to be thrown out.

I believe love tries to keep people from committing sin. For instance I believe it is love to keep a person from committing suicide and it is not love to encourage a person to commit suicide.

I believe God is much more wise than anyone's common sense.

So for that reason I believe the law should stand.

 

[suncowiam]

lol

If you assume I'm trying to make a point, you will become frustrated.

My only purpose is to promote more profound consideration of various aspects of the subject.

I understand your goal as I've read your other posts. But at times im lost to your method.

Usually I'm expecting to hear other view points but your method leads to more questions so it leads to circle that honestly I just want to politely stop and again try to understand your opinion.