To the Non Believers.

[Archer]

I don't want to seem condescending but what?

Do you not get the paper or CNN where you live? We have witnessed an organization hell bent on covering up the sexual abuse of children and said organization is based solely upon the belief in god.

Do you think people can't be evil if they believe in god?

Both theists and atheists can still choose to be evil. We have proof positive you can be a theist and evil and I'm sure there are examples of atheists being evil... Wow... we're all human.

Unsubstantiated? Did you not read of the salem witch trials? Did Dr Tiller not die in church from a gun shot wound from a believer who thought he was doing god's work? The crusades?

Mate... if you see religion as a means of protecting you from evil people you are running through life with your eyes closed. American prisons are filled with believers... What evidence suggests that if you believe in god you will be more moral? This priest is faking his belief in god? Polish priest held in Brazil on pedophile charges - Times LIVE

Or do you condone such acts?

Evil people are going to be evil with or without god.

"Evil people are going to be evil with or without god." I agree 100%. I just hate it when some put all of the evil in the world on believers because it is not the case. Many Atheists here ignore the flaw of humanity and tend to see the world with tunnel vision but what would one expect they are following the lead of the theists.

As far as the quote not me. I was having problems with the quote tool last night. I may fix the post eventually.

 

[Sententia]

"Evil people are going to be evil with or without god." I agree 100%.

Then why did you state this?

I would be scared in a godless world because many of faith would be dangerous without God.

Those who value the NEXT life more then this life are for more dangerous to the people currently here in this life. Whether the Next life is real or not if they can be convinced that even if they do horrible harm here and suffer endlessly it will be worth it in the next life then it seems very dangerous.

Thats not to say religion is the only belief system that teaches such and can inspire such actions but many religions are an example of that.

Second as a child I would hope my parents would put their faith in science rather then god if I were to get some disease or break a leg. If they ONLY will pray then religion is far more dangerous to a sick child. Again thats not say all religions are like that or even that religion has a monopoly of stupidity and cruelty but some religions have devout followers that adhere to that belief.

The point is I don't see how you can agree 100% that people are going to be evil with or without god will simultaneously being scared of a godless world.

 

[Archer]

Then why did you state this?



Those who value the NEXT life more then this life are for more dangerous to the people currently here in this life. Whether the Next life is real or not if they can be convinced that even if they do horrible harm here and suffer endlessly it will be worth it in the next life then it seems very dangerous.

Thats not to say religion is the only belief system that teaches such and can inspire such actions but many religions are an example of that.

Second as a child I would hope my parents would put their faith in science rather then god if I were to get some disease or break a leg. If they ONLY will pray then religion is far more dangerous to a sick child. Again thats not say all religions are like that or even that religion has a monopoly of stupidity and cruelty but some religions have devout followers that adhere to that belief.

The point is I don't see how you can agree 100% that people are going to be evil with or without god will simultaneously being scared of a godless world.

For every one of those people you used as an example there are hundreds that are not like that but also are not capable of living a life without a feeling of hope. These are the lemmings who do what the pastor says and never read their Bible and if they do read the understand it as they are told to.These people are a threat without God because if you take that away they loose purpose and they are incapable of any other type of understanding they must be led.

 

[Sententia]

For every one of those people you used as an example there are hundreds that are not like that but also are not capable of living a life without a feeling of hope. These are the lemmings who do what the pastor says and never read their Bible and if they do read the understand it as they are told to.These people are a threat without God because if you take that away they loose purpose and they are incapable of any other type of understanding they must be led.

When a child is born and for at least several years after they are capable of living a happy life without being dependent on a pastor defined hope.

Are you suggesting that a belief in god changes some people so that life and morality would be meaningless without god?

 

[Wotan]

"As to your statement coming from your frustration "As for your desire to be killed by some religious zealot - keep trumpeting YOUR religion and some other believer just might accommodate you.". Well statistically I would be more likely killed by one of your faith. So I guess you are a believer."

And you have NOT shown that to be the case. The very best that can be said of your "case" is that you have a coincidence. But you have shown NO causal connection. IF you have evidence for that present it.

Otherwise it remains your unsubstituted opinion and worth what such opinions are usually worth.

 

[Archer]

When a child is born and for at least several years after they are capable of living a happy life without being dependent on a pastor defined hope.

Are you suggesting that a belief in god changes some people so that life and morality would be meaningless without god?

I am saying that 50-75% of the people in this world are incapable of living a life without being ruled in one way or another. Some people need to be dominated and Religion gives them that. The Godless utopia would be fine if these people could reach a level where they were capable of independence. It is people that need direction and a lack of direction causes things like drug addiction, alcoholism, prostitution and more. These people need direction that can not be found in a Godless society.

 

[Archer]

"As to your statement coming from your frustration "As for your desire to be killed by some religious zealot - keep trumpeting YOUR religion and some other believer just might accommodate you.". Well statistically I would be more likely killed by one of your faith. So I guess you are a believer."

And you have NOT shown that to be the case. The very best that can be said of your "case" is that you have a coincidence. But you have shown NO causal connection. IF you have evidence for that present it.

Otherwise it remains your unsubstituted opinion and worth what such opinions are usually worth.

How many have been killed that were not killed in the name of God? How many in the name of the Godless state? You fail my friend. Statistics can be manipulated but raw numbers do not lie. I have a better chance of being killed by a Godless heathen than a Crusader, a suicide bomber or mad gunman killing in the name of their God.

 

[DeitySlayer]

How many have been killed that were not killed in the name of God? How many in the name of the Godless state? You fail my friend. Statistics can be manipulated but raw numbers do not lie. I have a better chance of being killed by a Godless heathen than a Crusader, a suicide bomber or mad gunman killing in the name of their God.

Uh-huh, but the point, Archer, is that the godless killers are not killing in the name of atheism. They are killing, and they are godless. But they are not killing because they do not believe in a God. Murders and crimes by religious people, however, are very often in the name of religion.

 

[Wotan]

I am saying that 50-75% of the people in this world are incapable of living a life without being ruled in one way or another. Some people need to be dominated and Religion gives them that. The Godless utopia would be fine if these people could reach a level where they were capable of independence. It is people that need direction and a lack of direction causes things like drug addiction, alcoholism, prostitution and more. These people need direction that can not be found in a Godless society.

Ah, "The Divine Right of Kings" position. The rabble needs to be controlled and WE are the ones to do it.

And I thought we settled this at Runnymede.:cover:

 

[McBell]

How many have been killed that were not killed in the name of God? How many in the name of the Godless state? You fail my friend. Statistics can be manipulated but raw numbers do not lie. I have a better chance of being killed by a Godless heathen than a Crusader, a suicide bomber or mad gunman killing in the name of their God.

What "raw numbers"?

What is your source?

 

[Revoltingest]

Uh-huh, but the point, Archer, is that the godless killers are not killing in the name of atheism. They are killing, and they are godless. But they are not killing because they do not believe in a God. Murders and crimes by religious people, however, are very often in the name of religion.

I agree with you, but I have a caution. Some of those who kill in the name of God would be killers anyway, regardless of their chosen faith,
since practice of religion is usually just an expression of who someone really is. To exploit this, I jab my friends who are believers by
complimenting them that they'd be good people even if they never had their religion.

 

[Archer]

Uh-huh, but the point, Archer, is that the godless killers are not killing in the name of atheism. They are killing, and they are godless. But they are not killing because they do not believe in a God. Murders and crimes by religious people, however, are very often in the name of religion.

These people (Claimed Christian anyway) have absolutely no Biblical foundation to kill the old testament is not for them to follow. They are not killing in the name of anything but man and if you take god away then they are just a godless killer. So we have all these godless killers and they are the danger. As I said I have a better chance of being killed in the name of man than the name of God.

 

[DeitySlayer]

These people (Claimed Christian anyway) have absolutely no Biblical foundation to kill the old testament is not for them to follow. They are not killing in the name of anything but man and if you take god away then they are just a godless killer. So we have all these godless killers and they are the danger. As I said I have a better chance of being killed in the name of man than the name of God.

Inquisition. In the name of God.
Crusades. In the name of God.
Imperialism and forced conversion. In the name of God.
9/11. In the name of God.
Taleban. In the name of God.

I could go on.

 

[DeitySlayer]

I agree with you, but I have a caution. Some of those who kill in the name of God would be killers anyway, regardless of their chosen faith,
since practice of religion is usually just an expression of who someone really is. To exploit this, I jab my friends who are believers by
complimenting them that they'd be good people even if they never had their religion.

Yep I know that, what I was saying was:

Without religion, good people will be good and bad people will be bad. It is only with religion that good people can (not must) be bad, because they genuinely believe they are pursuing truth and justice.

 

[Archer]

What "raw numbers"?

What is your source?

I had the numbers of just the mass murders committed by the Godless posted somewhere in this thread.

Do you think those who claim a religious affiliation are actually religious people? I can say I am Methodist and I was baptized in a Methodist church but I never attended other than that. Sure there is a baptism certificate but am I a Christian? Never heard a sermon, never read the Bible. I guess by your definition I am.

I went on to become a crack addict and killed a man for some money in a robbery for drug money. When I am arrested and go before the magistrate I fill in the line that I am Methodist. AM I?

There is a big Gap between those who claim a faith and those who follow the Holy books of faith.

So I say the majority of crimes are committed by the Godless. Their lives speak for what they are no matter what they claim.

 

[nrg]

These people (Claimed Christian anyway) have absolutely no Biblical foundation to kill the old testament is not for them to follow. They are not killing in the name of anything but man and if you take god away then they are just a godless killer. So we have all these godless killers and they are the danger. As I said I have a better chance of being killed in the name of man than the name of God.

But the thing is, these guys don't want anything to do with atheism either. If they were atheists they wouldn't believe in God. And if they're not atheists, I fail to see how their actions could be blamed on atheism.

 

[Archer]

But the thing is, these guys don't want anything to do with atheism either. If they were atheists they wouldn't believe in God. And if they're not atheists, I fail to see how their actions could be blamed on atheism.

I did not blame their actions on Atheism. Most Athiests have a good head on their shoulders and would not do these things. These people don't care enough to think of God one way or the other they are indifferent, Godless and without direction, the Atheist has direction most of the time.

 

[Archer]

Inquisition. In the name of God.
Crusades. In the name of God.
Imperialism and forced conversion. In the name of God.
9/11. In the name of God.
Taleban. In the name of God.

I could go on.

And the numbers show that more were killed in the name of nothing, the state or something else. These mass atrocities were committed by the godless and Atheists.

Hell look at the dynastic era of china. A lot of killing in the name of man.

 

[DeitySlayer]

And the numbers show that more were killed in the name of nothing, the state or something else. These mass atrocities were committed by the godless and Atheists.

Hell look at the dynastic era of china. A lot of killing in the name of man.

Firstly, despite repeatedly claiming you have statistics and numbers to prove your claims, you have never actually shown anything.

Secondly, atheism is not the worship of man. It is the non-belief in a God. Can you point me towards anyone who has killed BECAUSE they believe God does not exist?

 

[Archer]

Firstly, despite repeatedly claiming you have statistics and numbers to prove your claims, you have never actually shown anything.

Secondly, atheism is not the worship of man. It is the non-belief in a God. Can you point me towards anyone who has killed BECAUSE they believe God does not exist?

Bull ***** look a few pages back. If the atrocities committed by atheists and the Godless this century dont count or the murders and other crimes committed by the Godless this century alone then the Athiests are in denial.

Blame killing in the name of God all you want but I have proven without a doubt with irrefutable numbers that many times more have been killed by Atheists and the Godless in this century alone. Probably more than have been killed in the name of God throughout history both recorded and prehistoric.