To what extent are Islamic terrorists inspired by Muhammad and the Quran?

[Audie]

All OT history from 4,000 years ago, for a certain people, in a specific place, for a period of time.

The entire system was changed 2,000 years ago.

For I am the Lord, I do not change (Malachi 3:6).

James 1:17
Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights with whom there is no variation or shadow due to change.

God is not man, that he should lie, or a son of man, that he should change his mind. Has he said, and will he not do it? Or has he spoken, and will he not fulfill it?

etc


2000 years ago it was merciful and loving to chop
up the newborn, and to drown the bunnies?

 

[David T]

According to traditions Muhammad experienced His first Revelation from God through the angel Gabriel in the cave of Hira 610 AD. The Quran was revealed over the next two decades. Muhammad taught His people they should turn away from polytheism and be like the Christians and Jews and worship the One True God. This Divine Message was not well received by Muhammad’s people, particularly the Quraysh who arose to destroy Him and His followers. The Muslims fled to Medina, but they were pursued and so had to defend themselves in several battles. Muhammad and the Muslims were ultimately triumphant and went on to unite the tribes of the Arabian Peninsula.

Some of the Quran was composed during war time. Certain verses if taken out of context could be seen as condoning violence. Did the example of Muhammad’s willingness to take up arms when necessary (albeit for self defence) provide inspiration for future generations to take up arms during other times of need?

So with this thread I’d like to explore to what extent Muslim extremists are inspired by the Quran and Muhammad Himself? What about other influences such as the Hadiths, Sira and the early history of Islamic expansion? Are there parallels within Christianity’s expansion and history of violence? How do you see it and why?

Like all terrorists they are deeply inspired by themselves and seek external verification to their self worship! I dont think just religion has this problem. Although there are many whom seek to perfect it in religion.

 

[David T]

For I am the Lord, I do not change (Malachi 3:6).

James 1:17
Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights with whom there is no variation or shadow due to change.

God is not man, that he should lie, or a son of man, that he should change his mind. Has he said, and will he not do it? Or has he spoken, and will he not fulfill it?

etc


2000 years ago it was merciful and loving to chop
up the newborn, and to drown the bunnies?

Awesome.... Well done.
I have to say the best example why proof texting is lame is to use it against proof texting!!!

 

[Politesse]

You are assuming that a "holy leader" would himself
be pure and free of depravity. There are far too many
examples of such people being far from holy and pure.

Also, whether or not there is a "command" to "terrorism"
(whatever / however those are defined and interpreted)
if it is not specifically forbidden, then who is to say it is
not ok?

Also, your quote...it just does not apply. The boys of 911
were not trying to get their victims to be faithful.

I didn't say anything of the sort. People are people.

 

[Dawnofhope]

I would guess that Mohammed defended himself at first... I would guess that in that victory, he saw that as Allah working through him.

...And through that pride, Mohammad began expanding not defensively, but aggressively. And so we see then verses in the Koran based on war.

Please elaborate.

If you are referring to Muhammad’s decision to return to Mecca this appears pragmatic and sensible. The Quraysh who had opposed Muhammad converted en mass to Islam and was relatively bloodless.

Quraysh - Wikipedia

 

[Audie]

I didn't say anything of the sort. People are people.

so nothing I referred to was your writing.

 

[Cooky]

Please elaborate.

If you are referring to Muhammad’s decision to return to Mecca this appears pragmatic and sensible. The Quraysh who had opposed Muhammad converted en mass to Islam and was relatively bloodless.

Quraysh - Wikipedia

And so the fear of Islamic terror today is the same as it was then, where through fear, the Quraysh converted en mass to Islam.

 

[whirlingmerc]

The sacred writings of the Abrahamic Faiths can be a source of enormous inspiration, comfort and strength for millions. The verses of the Hebrew Testament, New Testament and Quran can promote the greatest nobility of the human spirit. The verses from the same books can also be used to promote war, hatred and estrangement.


It would be unwise of me to believe I understand your motivation. I would urge caution in you trying to understand mine.

I would say with the book of Romans that believers in Jesus walk in the footsteps of Abraham citing Abraham's willingness to sacrifice Issac believing God would raise Isaac from the dead if necessary.

Many claim to be of the faith of Abraham that but is it true?

 

[Ellen Brown]

All OT history from 4,000 years ago, for a certain people, in a specific place, for a period of time.

The entire system was changed 2,000 years ago.

Joshua is said to have died around 1242 BC. It was during his time when the children of Israel were ordered to go through villages and kill every living thing, including the animals. I have heard stories that the inhabitants of these villages were killing and eating babies, doing blood sacrifices to other gods, and other repugnant things. So I am not sure why Christians think they have a basis to criticize the followers of Muhammad PBUH for what they did in self defence?

 

[Ellen Brown]

You can see two qurans,the meccan verses,peaceful ,and the Medina verses,violent and on the offensive and also where jihad appears for the first time,the offensive begins with caravan raiding and ends after the massacre of the Jewish tribe banu qurayza.

The Quran,which I believe was authored by Muhammed is of course an inspiration for using violence to achieve a goal but I also believe more inspirational Muslims would appear much later like Hassan Al banna and sayyid qutb.

You know bloody little about Islam.

 

[whirlingmerc]

Joshua is said to have died around 1242 BC. It was during his time when the children of Israel were ordered to go through villages and kill every living thing, including the animals. I have heard stories that the inhabitants of these villages were killing and eating babies, doing blood sacrifices to other gods, and other repugnant things. So I am not sure why Christians think they have a basis to criticize the followers of Muhammad PBUH for what they did in self defence?

I would not apply that analogy quite that way

In the Old Testament there were wars like you describe as judgements of God by Israel

I would not see New Testament warfare is spiritual not physical

 

[shmogie]

Joshua is said to have died around 1242 BC. It was during his time when the children of Israel were ordered to go through villages and kill every living thing, including the animals. I have heard stories that the inhabitants of these villages were killing and eating babies, doing blood sacrifices to other gods, and other repugnant things. So I am not sure why Christians think they have a basis to criticize the followers of Muhammad PBUH for what they did in self defence?

Islam has a history of conquest, extremely violent conquest. Most muslim land today was once inhabited and governed by Christians. Islamic invasion resulted in these countries becoming islamic, the same occurred in huge swathes of India.

Islam didn´t practice ¨ self defense ¨ till 300 years after it began it´s conquests, when the Crusades started in response.

Christians did not exist at the time you point to, and what occurred was on a tiny scale compared to islam.

If the muslims had not been stopped at the gates of Vienna, Europe would have been more islamic territory.

 

[Dawnofhope]

And so the fear of Islamic terror today is the same as it was then, where through fear, the Quraysh converted en mass to Islam.

Not necessarily. Momentum was on the side of monotheism after the Roman Empire had become Christianised several centuries beforehand. It was probably pragmatic to convert to a monotheistic religion that had proved successful elsewhere. It made sense in many ways to convert to the religion of the tribe who had defeated them.

 

[Cooky]

Not necessarily. Momentum was on the side of monotheism after the Roman Empire had become Christianised several centuries beforehand. It was probably pragmatic to convert to a monotheistic religion that had proved successful elsewhere. It made sense in many ways to convert to the religion of the tribe who had defeated them.

It seems very strange to me that a large tribe would, at it's own homeland, drop it's own religion to adopt something new. Satellite populations in exile, yes I could see.

But it happens... After Constantine passed the Edict of Milan, it took only 10 years for Christianity to become the State religion of the Roman Empire. Which is bazaar.

 

[Cooky]

...Could something similar have occured with Islam? I don’t know.

 

[Ellen Brown]

I would not apply that analogy quite that way

In the Old Testament there were wars like you describe as judgements of God by Israel

I would not see New Testament warfare is spiritual not physical

I did not say anything about the New Testament. BUT, if I did, it would likely be less complementary than that. The murderings and condemnations done by the early church are repugnant, much of it done by what would become the Catholic Church. Then, even after Martin Luther, the fools burned each other at the stake, and various other debaucheries. The KJV of the Bible was authorized by a murderous, maniacal King. And then the leaving of England, Scotland, and Ireland and travel to America... sigh. There was the "Burned Out Period" in America where there were so many new religions that it was like setting a hand grenade off inside a pumpkin.

The shaitan has had his way with humanity, and I fear that when the Creator decides to fix it all, it may be much worse than he thought. Sad, so sad.

 

[Ellen Brown]

Islam has a history of conquest, extremely violent conquest. Most muslim land today was once inhabited and governed by Christians. Islamic invasion resulted in these countries becoming islamic, the same occurred in huge swathes of India.

Islam didn´t practice ¨ self defense ¨ till 300 years after it began it´s conquests, when the Crusades started in response.

Christians did not exist at the time you point to, and what occurred was on a tiny scale compared to islam.

If the muslims had not been stopped at the gates of Vienna, Europe would have been more islamic territory.

Go back and review the posts. Your mind is wandering.

 

[Samantha Rinne]

Like all terrorists they are deeply inspired by themselves and seek external verification to their self worship! I dont think just religion has this problem. Although there are many whom seek to perfect it in religion.

And this is perfectly true. However, when judging whether this is the case, it is important to look at the source material.

Repay no one evil for evil, but give thought to do what is honorable in the sight of all. If possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all. Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God, for it is written, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord.” To the contrary, “if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by so doing you will heap burning coals on his head.” Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

“You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder; and whoever murders will be liable to judgment.’ But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire.

“You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if anyone would sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. And if anyone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. Give to the one who begs from you, and do not refuse the one who would borrow from you. ...

If a Christian bombs a abortion clinic or kills a LGBT person, even though it says it disapproves of such things, it still doesn't advocate violence against them. Yet all Christians are held responsible for these.

Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not.

I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them

Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued

Those who disbelieve follow falsehood, while those who believe follow the truth from their Lord... So, when you meet (fighting Jihad in Allah's Cause), those who disbelieve smite at their necks till when you have killed and wounded many of them, then bind a bond firmly (on them, i.e. take them as captives)... If it had been Allah's Will, He Himself could certainly have punished them (without you). But (He lets you fight), in order to test you, some with others. But those who are killed in the Way of Allah, He will never let their deeds be lost

Islam the followers are violent in addition to what is said in the Quran, Christianity they are violent in spite of what is said in the Bible.

 

[Samantha Rinne]

But it happens... After Constantine passed the Edict of Milan, it took only 10 years for Christianity to become the State religion of the Roman Empire. Which is bazaar.

Not when you think of what actually is happening here.

1. There were alot of private Christians because Christians were a persecuted group in the ancient world. They kinda came out of the closet.
2. An emperor with alot of clout suddenly says he has a vision, uses a symbol on his shields, and wins a battle. He says do something, they'd better do something.
3. I actually don't think Constantine's Christianity was anything but an attempt to undermine Christianity. They were energetic wandering do-gooders that kinda tried to make a difference in especially areas where state oppression was a thing. Big State tends not to like people actually being sovereign. After Constantine, we have a set up church and more of a formalized hierarchy. But hold on a second...

Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to His disciples, saying: "The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. Therefore whatever they tell you to observe, that observe and do, but do not do according to their works; for they say, and do not do. For they bind heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers. But all their works they do to be seen by men."

He answered and said to them, "Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written: 'This people honors Me with their lips, But their heart is far from Me. And in vain they worship Me, Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.'"

"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which indeed appear beautiful outwardly, but inside are full of dead men's bones and all uncleanness. Even so you also outwardly appear righteous to men, but inside you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness."

A formalized hierarchical church with priests paid by the state was exactly what Jesus did not want.

 

[Shad]

Not necessarily. Momentum was on the side of monotheism after the Roman Empire had become Christianised several centuries beforehand. It was probably pragmatic to convert to a monotheistic religion that had proved successful elsewhere. It made sense in many ways to convert to the religion of the tribe who had defeated them.

Victory tends to settle arguments in one's mind especially a fatalist mind.