To what extent are Islamic terrorists inspired by Muhammad and the Quran?

[David T]

And this is perfectly true. However, when judging whether this is the case, it is important to look at the source material.







If a Christian bombs a abortion clinic or kills a LGBT person, even though it says it disapproves of such things, it still doesn't advocate violence against them. Yet all Christians are held responsible for these.









Islam the followers are violent in addition to what is said in the Quran, Christianity they are violent in spite of what is said in the Bible.

"And this is perfectly true. However, when judging whether this is the case, it is important to look at the source material"

Well Rumi didnt seem so mentally ill about it. So maybe mental illness needs to be redefined!

 

[Cooky]

Not when you think of what actually is happening here.

1. There were alot of private Christians because Christians were a persecuted group in the ancient world. They kinda came out of the closet.
2. An emperor with alot of clout suddenly says he has a vision, uses a symbol on his shields, and wins a battle. He says do something, they'd better do something.
3. I actually don't think Constantine's Christianity was anything but an attempt to undermine Christianity. They were energetic wandering do-gooders that kinda tried to make a difference in especially areas where state oppression was a thing. Big State tends not to like people actually being sovereign. After Constantine, we have a set up church and more of a formalized hierarchy. But hold on a second...

A formalized hierarchical church with priests paid by the state was exactly what Jesus did not want.

I don't quite understand point 2. I guess as a 21st century person, I just don't see how putting crosses on sheilds is going to change what I personally believe.

...Which leads back to the Muslims. Why would the main tribe in Mecca abandon their religion for Islam? Were they intimidated by Muslim terror? Or did they envy the Muslims?

 

[Shad]

I would link inspiration with interpretation, propaganda and charismatic figures. A lot of people will lose all sense if someone in authority with charisma tells them X, Y and Z.

 

[Dawnofhope]

You can see two qurans,the meccan verses,peaceful ,and the Medina verses,violent and on the offensive and also where jihad appears for the first time,the offensive begins with caravan raiding and ends after the massacre of the Jewish tribe banu qurayza.

The Quran,which I believe was authored by Muhammed is of course an inspiration for using violence to achieve a goal but I also believe more inspirational Muslims would appear much later like Hassan Al banna and sayyid qutb.

It all looks like one Quran to me. Many scholars are unable to distinguish the Meccan and Medinian Suras. Context is everything and the verses make sense when considering the tribal warfare that took place. If the Muslims lost the men would most likely have been killed and women and children taken as slaves.

The Quran itself makes no mention of the Jewish tribe Banu Qurayza. The story originated from the Sira, a book whose reliability is questioned almost universally. Not so with the Quran whose origins are widely considered Muhammad Himself.

Banu Qurayza - Wikipedia

 

[Dawnofhope]

I do not think that Quran inspires terrorists. I think that the natural “I” versus “them” belief of ego is the cause of terrorism and all other ills. Scripture actually dispels this myth. Scripture teaches patience to man and teaches ways to overcome man’s natural hatred full nature.

Although all Abrahamic scripture contain violent instructions, I believe that they should be read carefully in context.

I am very fond of the following two verses of Quran and often share these with people who have only negative view of Islam and Quran.

2.44
Enjoin ye righteousness upon mankind while ye yourselves forget (to practise it)? And ye are readers of the Scripture! Have ye then no sense?

2.213 Mankind were one community, and Allah sent (unto them) prophets as bearers of good tidings and as warners, and revealed therewith the Scripture with the truth that it might judge between mankind concerning that wherein they differed. And only those unto whom (the Scripture) was given differed concerning it, after clear proofs had come unto them, through hatred one of another. And Allah by His Will guided those who believe unto the truth of that concerning which they differed. Allah guideth whom He will unto a straight path.

But my Islam hating friends retort back with verses such as the following that admittedly can have disastrous consequences. What is idolator? According to Hindus, idolators are those who are worshippers of body as self and pay no attention to the divine soul that powers the body. OTOH, all Abrahamic folks think that Hindus worship idols. Those are foolish guys actually.

But, it is true that the following verse (and similar other verses) can be easily misinterpreted and misused.

9.005 Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
...

I believe that the verses 2.44 and 2.213 over ride all other apparently hatred full teachings but I often see that people on different sides do not believe as I do. The greatest example is the version of Islam promoted and exported by the Saudis and indirectly supported by USA.

I believe that it is duty of every religious person to not get swayed by hate mongering by people of politics who use religion for political reasons. Was institution of a Jewish state a religious or spiritual action? And similarly are violent actions of so called Islamic terrorists for control of land all over the world any spiritual action?

Many in India, rightly or wrongly, feel that India has borne the brunt of Islamic terrorism for centuries. In current times, this feeling has been fuelled by a rightist party to gain power.

It is ironical that it is leftists, who are materialists and atheists that counter the rightist agenda everywhere.

I agree and thanks for providing well chosen references from the Quran itself. I too see little association between those whom Muhammad criticised and Hindus. It all comes down to Sura 2:44 as you say.

 

[Dawnofhope]

To what extent are Islamic terrorists inspired by Muhammad and the Quran?
This is a silly question.
You go on Internet and see the verses displayed on plackards whilst someone reads from the Quran when beheading a Journalist.
Go and see how this bombers dress up, their parents worshipping Allah, whilst he reads the Quran, preparing to go and blow himself up with innocent people to attain paradise with 72 virgins and assuring their parents will gain paradise.
Look at the Boston Bomber's mother being so proud that her son was a martyr, and how she wishes her other son will also die because Islam teaches that a mother who looses a child in the cause for Allah, will enter paradise.
How can you even ask this question?
Why else will a young man go and kill and get killed in the Name of Allah and his prophet Muhammad, If not inspired by Muhammad and the Quran!

You should see those Christian suicide bombers worshipping Jesus when they behead an Atheist. And you should see what a hero that Christian bomber becomes when he kills women and children in the Name of Jesus.

I mean it is terrible how anyone can even think Muhammad and the Quran does not demand terrorism.
For 1 400 years islam used terror to destroy one third of the World and converted as many people to Islam with the sword.

Wake up!

So Biblical verses have never been used by Christian leaders to justify religious warfare, racism, slavery, the oppression of women and all manner of atrocities?

 

[Dawnofhope]

The Qu'ran is clear, sura and verse, however, I would point to Muhammed himself, as you mentioned, a bloody, violent man who even superseded what he allowed fellow Muslims to do.

And what evidence would support such claims about Muhammad?

 

[England my lionheart]

You know bloody little about Islam.

The "bloody" part of your post should be followed by "enough".

 

[Dawnofhope]

As I understand it, the two foundational, immutable claims of Islam are:

1 - The Quran is the perfect, timeless word of god
2 - Muhammad is the perfect role model.

I'd like to ask Muslims if they think you need to be a scholar to read and understand the Quran correctly, or whether anyone can read it and understand it correctly. (Remember that the Quran declares itself to be clear and easy to understand.)

They are good questions for Muslims. Most religious claims are difficult to convincingly verify and a degree of faith is required. Perhaps what can be verified to some extent is:
1/ The Quran was likely to be a record of the words Muhammad Himself spoke.
2/ Muhammad was the leader of a new religious community and like most religious leaders was revered by His followers. Muslims don’t revere Muhammad as God and Divinely perfect as Christians revere Christ.

 

[Dawnofhope]

I think his words are used to justify all manner of depraved acts; it is difficult to avoid this fate, as a religious leader. Holy texts as symbols are too powerful and influential to ignore, so any political force that wants to sway a deeply religious population is obliged to find a way to co-opt said text to their own greedy ends. If you ask me, this process may have already started by the time the Holy Qur'an and the Hadith were even collected and set to print, as the Prophet himself was already dead and his descendants sweeping a violent swath across the continents by the time they were put in print. But even if you believe this Book to be inviolate, it does not command anyone to acts of terrorism. Indeed, the repeated refrain "There is no faith through compulsion" would seem to forbid it outright.

I agree with much of what you say. I see neither Muhammad nor the Quran as corrupted, but Islam became corrupt early on. The Shi’a believe it was Ali, Muhammad’s Son-in-law who was Muhammad’s intended successor. Instead His wishes were usurped by Umar and Abu Bakr.

Abu Bakr - Wikipedia

 

[Ellen Brown]

The "bloody" part of your post should be followed by "enough".

How about I'm fed up with plonkers who think they know, but don't? On Ignore you go.

 

[England my lionheart]

It all looks like one Quran to me. Many scholars are unable to distinguish the Meccan and Medinian Suras. Context is everything and the verses make sense when considering the tribal warfare that took place. If the Muslims lost the men would most likely have been killed and women and children taken as slaves.

The Quran itself makes no mention of the Jewish tribe Banu Qurayza. The story originated from the Sira, a book whose reliability is questioned almost universally. Not so with the Quran whose origins are widely considered Muhammad Himself.

Banu Qurayza - Wikipedia

There are hadiths that do

Narrated Abu-Sa'id al-Khudri: When the tribe of Banu Qurayza was ready to accept Sad's judgment, Allah's Apostle sent for Sad who was near to him. Sad came, riding a donkey and when he came near, Allah's Apostle said (to the Ansar), "Stand up for your leader." Then Sad came and sat beside Allah's Apostle who said to him. "These people are ready to accept your judgment." Sad said, "I give the judgment that their warriors should be killed and their children and women should be taken as prisoners." The Prophet then remarked, "O Sad! You have judged amongst them with (or similar to) the judgment of the King Allah."
Sahih Bukhari 4:52:280, See Also: Sahih Bukhari 5:58:148, Sahih Bukhari 8:74:278, Sahih Muslim 19:4368, Sahih Muslim 19:4369

If one looks at the sura authored in medina and mecca they are different,I'm not saying they are two different books but by dividing it between the two places it gives a better insight as to why they were authored imo.

 

[England my lionheart]

How about I'm fed up with plonkers who think they know, but don't? On Ignore you go.

You forgot your teddy bear that you threw from your cradle ;-)

 

[Dawnofhope]

Some have thought Islamic violence is caused by sexual repression.
Opinion | The Sexual Misery of the Arab World

Perhaps anger at the sexual freedom of western women.

Sex is the most primitive assertion of one’s significance; it’s a means to perpetuate one’s name — and genes — into the future. Islamic State strategically uses it as a reward for aggression.

The militant group has set up marriage centers where women register to be wed to its fighters. Captured Iraqi women and girls are forced into sex slavery, living in brothels run by female jihadists. Rape of non-believers is considered legitimate, while fatwas proclaiming a “sexual jihad” encourage brutality against females. Lastly, martyrdom is associated with sexual bliss in paradise.
Joining Islamic State is about ‘sex and aggression,’ not religion

The association between sexual suppression and violence has some merit.

 

[Dawnofhope]

This is humorous to me because I had a very long history as a Christian and was well aware of their ability to take the Quran out of context, not having studied their own Bible well enough to know that there is just lots of violence against other people in the Christian Old Testament.

Yes there are places in the Quran where Muhammad PBUH admonished his followers to "Kill them", but that was after they were being attacked or under threat of attack. In my own opinion, "Terrorists" often feel provoked. Afghanistan is one example where the country was very western before the soviet invasion of 1979-89. Then later in 2001 the US invaded Afghanistan, purportedly to get Bin Laden. I believe the real reason for America going into Afghanistan was to secure access to the rare metals there.

We need to face the fact that the west, particularly America is predatory toward countries that have things that they want.

When Muslims turn to violence, I believe it is Tribalism and not Islam that fuels it. And often the violence comes as a result of provocation from the west. However, to be clear the incidents of 9/11/2001, the bombing of the WTC in 1993, and other attacks were inexcusable.

There are not so many on this forum who have been both Christian and Islam so I value your insights. Like you I revere both Muhammad and the Quran though have been content being Baha’i for nearly 30 years.

 

[SA Huguenot]

So Biblical verses have never been used by Christian leaders to justify religious warfare, racism, slavery, the oppression of women and all manner of atrocities?

give me an example.

 

[SA Huguenot]

And what evidence would support such claims about Muhammad?

You obviously never read the Sirat and Ahadith!

 

[sooda]

I don't quite understand point 2. I guess as a 21st century person, I just don't see how putting crosses on sheilds is going to change what I personally believe.

...Which leads back to the Muslims. Why would the main tribe in Mecca abandon their religion for Islam? Were they intimidated by Muslim terror? Or did they envy the Muslims?

They were mostly pagans .. The problem was the revenue stream from the pilgrims.. Muhammed destroyed all the idols except the virgin Mary.

The total population of Arabia was quite small.

 

[sooda]

There are hadiths that do

Narrated Abu-Sa'id al-Khudri: When the tribe of Banu Qurayza was ready to accept Sad's judgment, Allah's Apostle sent for Sad who was near to him. Sad came, riding a donkey and when he came near, Allah's Apostle said (to the Ansar), "Stand up for your leader." Then Sad came and sat beside Allah's Apostle who said to him. "These people are ready to accept your judgment." Sad said, "I give the judgment that their warriors should be killed and their children and women should be taken as prisoners." The Prophet then remarked, "O Sad! You have judged amongst them with (or similar to) the judgment of the King Allah."
Sahih Bukhari 4:52:280, See Also: Sahih Bukhari 5:58:148, Sahih Bukhari 8:74:278, Sahih Muslim 19:4368, Sahih Muslim 19:4369

If one looks at the sura authored in medina and mecca they are different,I'm not saying they are two different books but by dividing it between the two places it gives a better insight as to why they were authored imo.

The Bukhari hadiths came out of Persia 200 years after Muhammed.

 

[SA Huguenot]

I agree with much of what you say. I see neither Muhammad nor the Quran as corrupted, but Islam became corrupt early on. The Shi’a believe it was Ali, Muhammad’s Son-in-law who was Muhammad’s intended successor. Instead His wishes were usurped by Umar and Abu Bakr.

Abu Bakr - Wikipedia

Again, You obviously never read the history of Muhammad and the hadith.
If you dont see Muhammad as corrupt, I see him as corrupted.
He was a terrorist, murdered, torturer, liar, war monger, rapist, all in the name of Allah.
Tell you what,
Ali Sina made a Challenge to anyone that can refute the above claims.
You can get $50 000 if you can prove him wrong on any single point.
Sina’s Challenge

So, dont come and tell me that Muhammad was a good man, first get the facts, and go to Ali Sina and get your &50K.
Then come back and show me where my investigation into Islam is wrong.

By the way, this challenge was issued in 2001 already!
the only response was ... yes you got it...
Death threats!
The spirit of Muhammad lives in every Muslim.
if not, it awakes with the truth against him.