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To whom would you turn, for advice?

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
We can know that the god of Judeo-Christian scripture cannot exist as described because it is described as simultaneously having mutually exclusive qualities, such as being perfect, yet also making mistakes and regretting them:

[1] "As for Jehovah, his way is perfect - 2 Samuel 22:31

[2] "As for God, his way is perfect: The LORD's word is flawless; he shields all who take refuge in him." Psalm 18:30

[3] "His work is perfect, for all his ways are just. A trustworthy God who does no wrong, he is righteous and straight." - Deuteronomy 32:4

[4] "Be therefore perfect, even as your heavenly Father is perfect" - Matt 5:48

yet

[5] "And the LORD was sorry that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him to his heart." - Genesis 6:6
Doesn't sound too perfect to me.

Jehovah "also making mistakes and regretting them"?

Wait a minute....does the Bible say God regretted His mistakes? No, it says that God regretted the choices men were making!

Yes, His work is perfect....A&E were given a temptation, and possessing the ability of free will, they chose their own course: stealing from the tree that belonged to Jehovah.

The solution was also imperfect - drowning most terrestrial life for the sins of man, and starting over again using the same breeding stock. Guess what? It's the same sinful human race with all of the same warts and scars - greed, deception, theft, violence, etc.. Yet He is said to be perfect anyway.

The god described does not exist because it cannot. Actual gods would have to be either perfect or imperfect, but not both - at least not in the same sense at the same time.

It's the old married bachelor thing. By definition, no such thing exists or could exist, again assuming that we mean married and bachelor in the same sense at the same time, where bachelor means a never-been-married man.. One could be a married bachelor of arts.

This isn't to say that no gods exist, just that if they do, they don't violate the Law of Noncontradiction. We can't rule out the possibility of gods existing, but we can rule out the logically impossible ones.

Once, when having this discussion in the past, I was told that just because there are errors in the description of Jehovah, it doesn't mean He doesn't exist. I thought that that was odd. It would be like saying that married bachelors exist if you fix the error that the bachelor is married or that the married guy is still a bachelor.

There are many other examples of contradictory and mutually exclusive features of Jehovah, such as granting free will while being omniscient, or existing out of time but still acting such as creating man, and act that requires that there be a human-free before state and a post-creation state featuring humanity. It's one or the other in both cases, but not both simultaneously.

Well, since what you said 'God regretted His mistakes' has been revealed to be in error, maybe the rest of your interpretations are based on faulty assumptions, too? (For instance, your explanation as to why God brought the Flood is not completely accurate.)

The words that you read in the Scriptures, regarding Jehovah God, have not changed...Boyle, Kepler, etc., read those same words, and came to other conclusions, not the ones you reached. I'll go with their assessment!
 
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Bob the Unbeliever

Well-Known Member
Jehovah "also making mistakes and regretting them"?

Wait a minute....does the Bible say God regretted His mistakes? No, it says that God regretted the choices men were making!

So. God regrets making men in the first place?

Was god's hand forced to make these fatally flawed men? Who was the designer?

It seems that god made a mistake at the very start! But then blames his creation on the mistakes HE made at the outset!

But wait: IT GETS WORSE!

God wipes out the whole planet, for a Do Over. BUT DOES NOT CREATE NEW, NON-FLAWED STOCK!

God uses the same failed design that didn't work the first time around!

Sheesh. A six year old would recognize THAT bit of stupid in the planning!

This god is dumb.
 

swanlake

Member
I would go with God. But would ask humans also as they are all around us. I would never use the Devil or demon's.

Do you happen to be Jehovah Witness? I was just wondering, I am not, but there are a few great Jehovah Witnesses on these forums.

Yes I am one of Jehovah's Witnesses. Please accept my apology for my late reply. I have been busy and your patience is very much appreciated. Hope you have a good day.
 
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Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
Three options: 1) The most high God Jehovah,
2) Satan/Demons or
3) Humans ? :)

Of the three, humans:
  1. Jehovah/Yahweh is not my God, therefore I would not ask anything of him.
  2. I don't believe in Satan or demons.
That leaves humans.
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Three options: 1) The most high God Jehovah,
2) Satan/Demons or
3) Humans ? :)
I don't limit myself to your choices, or to picking only one.

1. I do not go to occult sources such as Tarot, I Ching, Ouija, Psychics, etc.

2. I always begin by gathering as much information as possible, looking in books or journals, talking to professionals in the subject and to people with background information etc.

3. I will seek the counsel of people I consider wise. If it's particularly life altering decision I will even go to a job counselor or marriage counselor or my rabbi. Poverbs 15:22 For want of counsel purposes are frustrated; But in the multitude of counselors they are established.

4. I will think on it and not rush to judgment. This gives me time to analyze, and for my intuition to come up with creative solutions.

5. Finally, I will pray over it, usually more than once This way, if there is spiritual corruption interfering with a good decision, i.e. if I am inclining to a poor decision in order to save myself from embarrassment rather than own something I did, it will usually come to light when I am in prayer. I ask Hashem for the purity of heart and wisdom to make the best decision and I ask that he will be with me whatever the fallout may be.
 

swanlake

Member
I don't limit myself to your choices, or to picking only one.

1. I do not go to occult sources such as Tarot, I Ching, Ouija, Psychics, etc.

2. I always begin by gathering as much information as possible, looking in books or journals, talking to professionals in the subject and to people with background information etc.

3. I will seek the counsel of people I consider wise. If it's particularly life altering decision I will even go to a job counselor or marriage counselor or my rabbi. Poverbs 15:22 For want of counsel purposes are frustrated; But in the multitude of counselors they are established.

4. I will think on it and not rush to judgment. This gives me time to analyze, and for my intuition to come up with creative solutions.

5. Finally, I will pray over it, usually more than once This way, if there is spiritual corruption interfering with a good decision, i.e. if I am inclining to a poor decision in order to save myself from embarrassment rather than own something I did, it will usually come to light when I am in prayer. I ask Hashem for the purity of heart and wisdom to make the best decision and I ask that he will be with me whatever the fallout may be.

That's great! Good for you!
 

Milton Platt

Well-Known Member
Hello!

Wishing everyone well and good health.

So much has happened. Family, in-laws, friends, … . Health problems (cancer, diabetes, heart-disease, … ) old age, economy, death … . Can you relate?

God is blamed for so many things when something goes wrong!

Why?

Have you ask yourself? Who is ruling this world? Is it not Satan / Devil! (1 John 5:19)
If the Devil (the root cause for mankind problems) is ruling right now, why do so many people blame God the Almighty who is the personification of LOVE?
God Jehovah, the Almighty, cannot be tried with evil things.
James 1:13
When under trial, let no one say: “I am being tried by God.” For with evil things God cannot be tried, nor does he himself try anyone.

What are some of the reasons for problems?
1) As mentioned, Satan / Devil is the ruler of this world, right now.
1 John 5:19
We know that we originate with God, but the whole world is lying in the power of the
wicked one.

Revelation 12:9
So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and
Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth,
and his angels were hurled down with him.

2) Time and unexpected events.
Ecclesiastes 9:11
I have seen something further under the sun, that the swift do not always win the race,
nor do the mighty win the battle, nor do the wise always have the food, nor do the
intelligent always have the riches, nor do those with knowledge always have success,
because time and unexpected events overtake them all.

3) Inherited imperfection from Adam.
Romans 5:12
That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin,
and so death spread to all men because they had all sinned.

James 1:14
But each one is tried by being drawn out and enticed by his own desire.

4) False prophets
Matthew 24:11, 12
Many false prophets will arise and mislead many; 12 and because of the increasing of
lawlessness, the love of the greater number will grow cold.

False prophets are false teachers.


It is sad that many individuals / Christians blame (maybe unknowingly, unintentionally, out of ignorance, … ) our Creator for the death and sicknesses of our loved once, weather it is an infant or an elderly person.

Please remember and remind yourself of the above scriptures and words. Don’t blame because out of convenience, … , or because of pain. Direct / channel the blame where it rightfully belongs and be honest with yourself. This may not be easy! Have you asked lately how our Creator, your God, Jehovah, … feels about what is going on in this world? On this earth?

What was Jehovah’s original purpose for humans / mankind?
Please think about Adam / Eve and what they lost.
Just some scriptures to shed some light on the subject, what our first parents lost and show Jehovah’s feelings / desire.

Revelation 21:3-6
With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his people. And God himself will be with them. 4 And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.” 5 And the One seated on the throne said: “Look! I am making all things new.” Also he says: “Write, for these words are faithful and true.”

Jehovah sent his son, his very first creation, to the earth to give his life that we can gain life if we choose to.

John 3:16
“For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, so that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life.

Have you thought about how high of a price Jehovah and Jesus paid to save mankind? Would you give up your first born, or any of your children, if you have any, to die for others? For Good people, maybe!?. ???

Ecclesiastes 1:4
A generation is going, and a generation is coming, But the earth remains forever.

Psalm 37:29
The righteous will possess the earth, And they will live forever on it.

John 5:28, 29
Do not be amazed at this, for the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice 29 and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, and those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment.

Isaiah 35:5, 6
At that time the eyes of the blind will be opened, And the ears of the deaf will be unstopped. 6 At that time the lame will leap like the deer, And the tongue of the speechless will shout for joy. For waters will burst forth in the wilderness, And streams in the desert plain.

Isaiah 65:21, 22
They will build houses and live in them, And they will plant vineyards and eat their fruitage. 22 They will not build for someone else to inhabit, Nor will they plant for others to eat. For the days of my people will be like the days of a tree, And the work of their hands my chosen ones will enjoy to the full.

Isaiah 25:8
He will swallow up death forever, And the Sovereign Lord Jehovah will wipe away the tears from all faces. The reproach of his people he will take away from all the earth, For Jehovah himself has spoken it.

Revelation 21:4
And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.

Revelation 11:18
But the nations became wrathful, and your own wrath came, and the appointed time came for the dead to be judged and to reward your slaves the prophets and the holy ones and those fearing your name, the small and the great, and to bring to ruin those ruining the earth.

Daniel 2:44
“In the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed. And this kingdom will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it alone will stand it forever,


James 4:8
Draw close to God, and he will draw close to you.


People who believe in god should hold him responsible for all things. Are all things not part on his “plan”? Do things happen against his will? Are there things he has no control over?
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
Hello!

Wishing everyone well and good health.

So much has happened. Family, in-laws, friends, … . Health problems (cancer, diabetes, heart-disease, … ) old age, economy, death … . Can you relate?

God is blamed for so many things when something goes wrong!

Why?

Have you ask yourself? Who is ruling this world? Is it not Satan / Devil! (1 John 5:19)
If the Devil (the root cause for mankind problems) is ruling right now, why do so many people blame God the Almighty who is the personification of LOVE?
God Jehovah, the Almighty, cannot be tried with evil things.
James 1:13
When under trial, let no one say: “I am being tried by God.” For with evil things God cannot be tried, nor does he himself try anyone.

What are some of the reasons for problems?
1) As mentioned, Satan / Devil is the ruler of this world, right now.
1 John 5:19
We know that we originate with God, but the whole world is lying in the power of the
wicked one.

Revelation 12:9
So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and
Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth,
and his angels were hurled down with him.

2) Time and unexpected events.
Ecclesiastes 9:11
I have seen something further under the sun, that the swift do not always win the race,
nor do the mighty win the battle, nor do the wise always have the food, nor do the
intelligent always have the riches, nor do those with knowledge always have success,
because time and unexpected events overtake them all.

3) Inherited imperfection from Adam.
Romans 5:12
That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin,
and so death spread to all men because they had all sinned.

James 1:14
But each one is tried by being drawn out and enticed by his own desire.

4) False prophets
Matthew 24:11, 12
Many false prophets will arise and mislead many; 12 and because of the increasing of
lawlessness, the love of the greater number will grow cold.

False prophets are false teachers.


It is sad that many individuals / Christians blame (maybe unknowingly, unintentionally, out of ignorance, … ) our Creator for the death and sicknesses of our loved once, weather it is an infant or an elderly person.

Please remember and remind yourself of the above scriptures and words. Don’t blame because out of convenience, … , or because of pain. Direct / channel the blame where it rightfully belongs and be honest with yourself. This may not be easy! Have you asked lately how our Creator, your God, Jehovah, … feels about what is going on in this world? On this earth?

What was Jehovah’s original purpose for humans / mankind?
Please think about Adam / Eve and what they lost.
Just some scriptures to shed some light on the subject, what our first parents lost and show Jehovah’s feelings / desire.

Revelation 21:3-6
With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his people. And God himself will be with them. 4 And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.” 5 And the One seated on the throne said: “Look! I am making all things new.” Also he says: “Write, for these words are faithful and true.”

Jehovah sent his son, his very first creation, to the earth to give his life that we can gain life if we choose to.

John 3:16
“For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, so that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life.

Have you thought about how high of a price Jehovah and Jesus paid to save mankind? Would you give up your first born, or any of your children, if you have any, to die for others? For Good people, maybe!?. ???

Ecclesiastes 1:4
A generation is going, and a generation is coming, But the earth remains forever.

Psalm 37:29
The righteous will possess the earth, And they will live forever on it.

John 5:28, 29
Do not be amazed at this, for the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice 29 and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, and those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment.

Isaiah 35:5, 6
At that time the eyes of the blind will be opened, And the ears of the deaf will be unstopped. 6 At that time the lame will leap like the deer, And the tongue of the speechless will shout for joy. For waters will burst forth in the wilderness, And streams in the desert plain.

Isaiah 65:21, 22
They will build houses and live in them, And they will plant vineyards and eat their fruitage. 22 They will not build for someone else to inhabit, Nor will they plant for others to eat. For the days of my people will be like the days of a tree, And the work of their hands my chosen ones will enjoy to the full.

Isaiah 25:8
He will swallow up death forever, And the Sovereign Lord Jehovah will wipe away the tears from all faces. The reproach of his people he will take away from all the earth, For Jehovah himself has spoken it.

Revelation 21:4
And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.

Revelation 11:18
But the nations became wrathful, and your own wrath came, and the appointed time came for the dead to be judged and to reward your slaves the prophets and the holy ones and those fearing your name, the small and the great, and to bring to ruin those ruining the earth.

Daniel 2:44
“In the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed. And this kingdom will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it alone will stand it forever,


James 4:8
Draw close to God, and he will draw close to you.
Um... Wow.
Like dude, or is it dudette :D ?, that's a lot of 'food' for thought.
Welcome to the forums fellow worker. ;)
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
People who believe in god should hold him responsible for all things. Are all things not part on his “plan”?
They are part of God's Plan but it is humans who are causing that Plan to unfold. Humans are responsible for the Plan because God gave humans free will to carry out the Plan.
Do things happen against his will? Are there things he has no control over?
Things happen against God's Will because humans have free will and God allows them to reject His teachings and break His commandments. God could stop them because God has control over all things, but God allows humans to do as they please. There might come a time when God decides to intervene, there are indications that might happen if humans do not shape up.
 

Ancient Soul

The Spiritual Universe
Hello Blu2,

What I say will probably have no meaning to you, and to many be discounted as my own thoughts. And I will say it is even hard for me to understand.

During times of distress, or times when I have been at a crossroads and did not know what to do. I would pray earnestly and I would get what I feel was an answer, either a dream (I never dream as when I was I child, I would have bad dreams that would scare me deeply, and I learned to control them. As I got better, I quit dreaming) or an audible answer. It was like I had actually heard it, but I know it was not actually audible to anyone else.

This does not work all the time, in fact rarely, and it does not work for everyone. So sometimes you have to pray and hopefully God will get you the answer some other way.

I would suggest that you try to understand what is going on "within you" when this happens, so you can learn how to get better at this process.
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
I think it is the God of monotheism since that is the One True God. ;)
Option #1 was Jehovah, which is a mispronunciation of the yad hey and vav hey, the name of the God of monotheism, aka the God of Abraham. Why did you feel the need to add an option #4?
 

Ancient Soul

The Spiritual Universe
Since you add this in addition to the God of monotheism, you obviously are thinking that it is some other God that is the one true God. Can you tell me who this God is?

You are thinking of man made "god" constructs.

The one I am speaking of is the True God, the one who creates, maintains, and controls the universe. The God who is the living universe, and the universe is the living God. They are both God, one and the same.
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
You are thinking of man made "god" constructs.

The one I am speaking of is the True God, the one who creates, maintains, and controls the universe. The God who is the living universe, and the universe is the living God. They are both God, one and the same.
Normally, if God is the universe, the universe cannot also create the universe. Think about it.
 
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