To whom would you turn, for advice?

[Aupmanyav]

Three options: 1) The most high God Jehovah, 2) Satan/Demons or 3) Humans?

The post is in General Religious debates. I am a Hindu and an atheist. This Most high God, Jehowah, does not mean anything to me. We do not have any Satans in Hinduism. For us the satans are Krodha (anger), Moha (attachment), Mada (pride), Kama (sexual desires in contravention of Dharma) and Lobha (greed). In our society, if we have some problem, we check with our more experienced elders. I would not turn to anyone. I have enough experience of life. I would analyze the problem myself unless it is some problem which requires professional help, e.g., taxes, medical, etc.

 

[Misunderstood]

I respect your view.

However, the proposition wasn't put in those terms, but was put in terms of any problem.

Thank you for your respect. Usually a reply like I made is met with criticism and ridicule. So I almost did not answer as I am sure I will hear some of that by the end of tomorrow. But in reading your post I felt you were sincere in your post. So again thank you for you respect of my view, even if you do not accept it.

You are right that all answers will not be answered and you will need to rely on others for that type of question I am sure.

 

[Trailblazer]

Three options: 1) The most high God Jehovah,
2) Satan/Demons or
3) Humans ?

Since I do not believe that God speaks directly to humans, I would refer to the scriptures of my religion, the Baha'i Faith. I might also talk to a human, like my husband or a friend. I also have a lot of legal problems so I talk to a lot of attorneys.

 

[Misunderstood]

Since I do not believe that God speaks directly to humans, I would refer to the scriptures of my religion, the Baha'i Faith. I might also talk to a human, like my husband or a friend.

Off topic, but I love the kitty in your avatar. Black cats are so mistreated by some, but are such good cats.

 

[Desert Snake]

Three options: 1) The most high God Jehovah,
2) Satan/Demons or
3) Humans ?

Religion is somewhat personal. There are really different perspectives concerning the idea of personal religion, however, once that idea is accepted, or realized, then the answers don't mean 'all the time'. Obviously when something is claimed to be true, then it means there is a personal idea, there, whether shared, or otherwise. Hence, to thst question, context is needed, otherwise, the answer itself is most likely not relevant to the question.

 

[Trailblazer]

Off topic, but I love the kitty in your avatar. Black cats are so mistreated by some, but are such good cats.

Thanks. The cat in my avatar is called Princess and we got her at an animal shelter about two years ago. We have another black cat called Smokey. We have 10 Persian cats, but I only have photos of three of them.
I love cats more than life itself... All cats are good cats, no matter the color.

 

[ChristineM]

Three options: 1) The most high God Jehovah,
2) Satan/Demons or
3) Humans ?

1 and 2 are simply asking yourself what to do, fine if you have experience or possible a fine insight into the problem

So for me, a human with experience of the problem is my answer

 

[Jumi]

I don't believe God is like a human that gives us advice. Satan doesn't exist. If I need advice I have quite a bit of experience and the first thing I do is ddg.gg or google, then ask others if needed. So from those options I'd go with 3.

 

[Woberts]

Jehovah isn't the highest God, the FSM is.
So I'll have to go with His wonderous noodles.

 

[Tomas Kindahl]

Three options: 1) The most high God Jehovah,
2) Satan/Demons or
3) Humans ?

About the persons: 1) "The most high God Jehovah" doesn't exist, the Jews and Christian calls the beef-eater god "Yahweh" – according to my Gnostic faith he is an archon, and not in any way highest; 2) "Satan/Demons", you perhaps mean archons? No, I wouldn't ask an archon for advice, same goes for Yahweh. 3) humans, yes perhaps, perhaps Jesus, perhaps Holy Mother Sophia. If the choice is between archons and humans, I choose humans.

 

[Rival]

The most high God Jehovah" doesn't exist

Tell me more about how you know everything.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

"The most high God Jehovah" doesn't exist

Tell me more about how you know everything.

We can know that the god of Judeo-Christian scripture cannot exist as described because it is described as simultaneously having mutually exclusive qualities, such as being perfect, yet also making mistakes and regretting them:

[1] "As for Jehovah, his way is perfect - 2 Samuel 22:31

[2] "As for God, his way is perfect: The LORD's word is flawless; he shields all who take refuge in him." Psalm 18:30

[3] "His work is perfect, for all his ways are just. A trustworthy God who does no wrong, he is righteous and straight." - Deuteronomy 32:4

[4] "Be therefore perfect, even as your heavenly Father is perfect" - Matt 5:48

yet

[5] "And the LORD was sorry that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him to his heart." - Genesis 6:6​

Doesn't sound too perfect to me. The solution was also imperfect - drowning most terrestrial life for the sins of man, and starting over again using the same breeding stock. Guess what? It's the same sinful human race with all of the same warts and scars - greed, deception, theft, violence, etc.. Yet He is said to be perfect anyway.

The god described does not exist because it cannot. Actual gods would have to be either perfect or imperfect, but not both - at least not in the same sense at the same time.

It's the old married bachelor thing. By definition, no such thing exists or could exist, again assuming that we mean married and bachelor in the same sense at the same time, where bachelor means a never-been-married man.. One could be a married bachelor of arts.

This isn't to say that no gods exist, just that if they do, they don't violate the Law of Noncontradiction. We can't rule out the possibility of gods existing, but we can rule out the logically impossible ones.

Once, when having this discussion in the past, I was told that just because there are errors in the description of Jehovah, it doesn't mean He doesn't exist. I thought that that was odd. It would be like saying that married bachelors exist if you fix the error that the bachelor is married or that the married guy is still a bachelor.

There are many other examples of contradictory and mutually exclusive features of Jehovah, such as granting free will while being omniscient, or existing out of time but still acting such as creating man, and act that requires that there be a human-free before state and a post-creation state featuring humanity. It's one or the other in both cases, but not both simultaneously.

 

[Rival]

This isn't to say that no gods exist, just that if they do, they don't violate the Law of Noncontradiction.

G-d created these laws. To say G-d is bound by them would be ridiculous. There are many things in scripture that violate natural laws, such as resurrection, and, to many, the idea of a soul, or an afterlife. That you expect everything to conform to known-logic is strange, given that we are not talking about logical things.

 

[Tomas Kindahl]

We can know that the god of Judeo-Christian scripture cannot exist as described because ...

Very well said, I couldn't have said it better myself!

 

[Tomas Kindahl]

G-d created these laws. To say G-d is bound by them would be ridiculous. There are many things in scripture that violate natural laws, such as resurrection, and, to many, the idea of a soul, or an afterlife. That you expect everything to conform to known-logic is strange, given that we are not talking about logical things.

Illogics is a bad practice making people stupid. There is no illogic in the universe – illogic is a thing of the human brain. Ergo an illogical world view cannot be true.

 

[Rival]

Illogics is a bad practice making people stupid. There is no illogic in the universe – illogic is a thing of the human brain. Ergo an illogical world view cannot be true.

Yes but we are talking about things outside the universe. That is, G-d.

 

[Tomas Kindahl]

Yes but we are talking about things outside the universe. That is, G-d.

As said before illogic is a thing of the human brain. I should add: solely. Ergo an illogical world view cannot be true. You can choose to be illogical all you want, but if you speak contradictions, your words will not be valid, especially not a valid description of the reality, in this world or beyond. There is no such thing as: "when I speculate about supernatural forces, I have the right to be believed despite contradicting myself, so that nobody can understand what I say".

 

[Rival]

As said before illogic is a thing of the human brain. I should add: solely. Ergo an illogical world view cannot be true. You can choose to be illogical all you want, but if you speak contradictions, your words will not be valid, especially not a valid description of the reality, in this world or beyond. There is no such thing as: "when I speculate about supernatural forces, I have the right to be believed despite contradicting myself, so that nobody can understand what I say".

You expect to be able to understand the Being that created everything in existence? I surely do not.

 

[Tomas Kindahl]

You expect to be able to understand the Being that created everything in existence? I surely do not.

No, and it is irrelevant. I presume you don't quite know what logic is. It is rules for what statements can be true at the same time in the language. It has nothing to do with the constitution of universe and beyond. The Bible is a bunch of words only, and it is illogical, and therefore cannot be true in all details. Personally I think a good God cannot have created such a decaying universe, where death is inevitable. The universe creator god of the Jews, the Christians and others is called Yahweh. I prefer logic before submission under a doctrine. I'm scared of death too, but I do not submit for any threats of any "almighty being" to accept a theory of illogics, which by its design can be proved to be flawed and therefore human only.

 

[Nakosis]

Three options: 1) The most high God Jehovah,
2) Satan/Demons or
3) Humans ?

Whichever person that has the most experience.