Three options: 1) The most high God Jehovah,
2) Satan/Demons or
3) Humans ?
Out of those three humans. I wouldn't go to the first two. Neither are my gods.
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To whom would you turn, for advice?
- Thread starter swanlake
- Start date
Out of those three humans. I wouldn't go to the first two. Neither are my gods.
I'm not, so I'm not sure who your other person is. I actually cannot wait to die, sometimes.
You're welcome to your view.
QuestioningMind
Well-Known Member
Three options: 1) The most high God Jehovah,
2) Satan/Demons or
3) Humans ?
3, since there is actual verifiable evidence that humans exist, while there is absolutely ZERO verifiable evidence for 1 or 2.
QuestioningMind
Well-Known Member
Human beings create laws, but that doesn't mean that it's ridiculous for human beings to be expected to bound by those laws. The fact that scriptures contain so many fantastical supernatural claims suggests that it is nothing more than any other made-up mythology filled with fantastical supernatural claims. The only way that human beings have found thus far to reliably ascertain how reality works is to conform to a logic and evidence based methodology. Otherwise we condemn ourselves to the absolute chaos of being forced to accept every single illogical fantastical claim ever made... like the Earth is flat, or that aliens from Mars are posing as humans and have infiltrated our society, that magical fairies are responsible for creating rainbows, or that some figures in history have actually died and come back to life.
You can't really compare G-d to human beings though. We cannot even explain or fully define Him, let alone understand Him. Why would you expect Him to conform to your idea of Him, and your logic? Humans create laws but are they bound by them? For instance, there is a law against murder, but that does not physically stop someone from committing murder.
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Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Besides the fact that God is not going to talk and give anyone advice even if God exists. Rational people know that. Others imagine God is talking to them. God might put ideas in one's head but there is no way to verify they came from God.
So, if I need assistance on a certain problem, I will talk to a friend, my husband or an expert in the field. I am waiting for an attorney to call me today regarding a tenant issue I am having, I am not waiting for God to call me and solve my problem.
QuestioningMind
Well-Known Member
The simple fact that you cannot even explain or fully define, let alone understand this so called God suggests that there isn't sufficient reason to believe that this God even exists. There's no more reason to believe that your mythical God will conform to my idea of 'him' that there is reason to believe that magical fairies and invisible unicorns will conform to my idea of what 'they' should be. But in all three cases I have no reason to believe that they are anything other than mythological concepts without some verifiable evidence indicating otherwise.
Nothing about a law, be it a human law or a so called God's law makes it impossible to break that law. If that were the case laws would never have to be enforced. What everyone is supposed to be bound by are the consequences of breaking any given law.
Again, why do you expect to be able to understand the Creator of everything? Do you suppose that a hummingbird has any clue whatsoever about you, your thoughts, your life and anything to do with you? This is just a case of humans sticking their limited view onto everything. Just because the hummingbird cannot begin to comprehend the human it does not mean the human is not real.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Great analogy. Logic is good.
Great analogy. Logic is good.
Not really, a hummingbird can see a human, both live on this ball of rock we call earth and neither are figments of the imagination
Google.Three options: 1) The most high God Jehovah,
2) Satan/Demons or
3) Humans ?
I was thinking similarly. Like, what if Jehovah won't answer?
QuestioningMind
Well-Known Member
Please review your reading comprehension skills. I VERY specifically stated that I do NOT expect your proposed creator being to conform to my understanding, JUST like I don't expect anyone's proposed supernatural magical fairy to conform to my understanding. What I DO require before I can assert a belief that either is anything other than make-believe mythology is some form of verifiable evidence that either your creator god or magical fairies even exist. Otherwise I would have to assert a belief in every single fantastical claim that human beings make or have ever made and that would result in complete ignorance on my part. Because if you claim to believe absolutely EVERYTHING then essentially you are claiming to believe in absolutely NOTHING.
Three options: 1) The most high God Jehovah,
2) Satan/Demons or
3) Humans ?
Depends on the advice I need,theres a human out there to match my needs.
And I dismissed it, because you cannot compare The Infinite to fairies. No-one is claiming fairies made the universe, or that we cannot define or understand them.
OK. Again, your comparison is wrong, and I would not believe in a god that was on par with fairies either. You have obviously not come across or experienced satisfying evidence. That's fine.
It is not a fantastical claim to believe that something created the known universe, or that the universe had a beginning, or that the something that created the universe has an active interest in it. These are all, in fact, reasonable explanations for the universe and life in it. That this is a matter of belief is obvious, but this does not negate the belief, nor does it make it fantastic.
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Trailblazer
Veteran Member
But a hummingbird can no more understand a human than a human can understand God.
Just because a hummingbird cannot understand humans does not mean humans do not exist...
Just because humans cannot understand God does not mean God does not exist.
Bob the Unbeliever
Well-Known Member
I'd either pick #3 or else my cat.
I often talk to my cat, and he does-- when he feels like it-- meow back at me.
In fact, sometimes he's quite insistent, like when it's time for brushing, or if his food bowl has a gap in the kibble, wherein you may see the bottom of the bowl.
Then? He's quite communicative.
I find that telling kitty about my problems to be far more useful than pretty much any other methodologies. Especially #1 or #2-- both of which I had tried in the past. But I got better.
Funny thing is? As often as not, when I explain to kitty my problem? He looks at me like, "so? My food bowl is only half full, and I so need brushing right now."
That kind of puts it in perspective.
I often talk to my cat, and he does-- when he feels like it-- meow back at me.
In fact, sometimes he's quite insistent, like when it's time for brushing, or if his food bowl has a gap in the kibble, wherein you may see the bottom of the bowl.
Then? He's quite communicative.
I find that telling kitty about my problems to be far more useful than pretty much any other methodologies. Especially #1 or #2-- both of which I had tried in the past. But I got better.
Funny thing is? As often as not, when I explain to kitty my problem? He looks at me like, "so? My food bowl is only half full, and I so need brushing right now."
That kind of puts it in perspective.
Three options: 1) The most high God Jehovah,
2) Satan/Demons or
3) Humans ?
Why, the membership here at RF, of course.
It's not a question of understanding, it's a question of evidence for existence. As Christine pointed out, a hummingbird has evidence of our existence. We have no such evidence of a God, yet we spin endless tales about Him.
Again, you miss the point. There is exactly the same evidence for faeries as there is for God. They are epistemically equivalent, so why would you believe in invisible being #1 but not 2 or 3?
Again, it's not a question of their disparate qualities, but of their existential or epistemic equivalence. You can make up any stories you want about either of them, but there is no empirical evidence either way.
If you're aware of some 'satisfying evidence' of God, What is it? I assume it's something personal and subjective that no-one else is privy to, since, if actual, empirical evidence existed I'd expect it to be generally known by now, after so many millennia of 'theology'. I'd expect something coherent and empirically supported.
You could propose a 'something' that created the universe, or you could propose it occurred by unconscious, unintentional physics. When there's a choice between known, observable, measurable mechanism vs unsupported speculation; between physics and magic, what conclusion seems most reasonable?
But the hummer has empirical evidence of humans, something we do not have for God. It's not a question of understanding.