Tolerance

[tarasan]

In what way were you attacked? Did they stab you? Shoot you? Pistol whip you? Pummel you with their fists? Kick you in the head?

No they just called me a bigot and threatened me, yellin agressive and all that, attack was a strong word, there was a bit of emotion in with that last message. To be honest it was kind wierd having a guy with an effeminate accent treat me like that :angel2: although that wasnt the reason why i created this thread but its a good example, somehow to be tolerant nowadays it seems that i must completely agree with everyone or be involved/ not involved with certian groups or else im a bigot.

 

[Smoke]

No they just called me a bigot and threatened me, yellin agressive and all that, attack was a strong word, there was a bit of emotion in with that last message. To be honest it was kind wierd having a guy with an effeminate accent treat me like that :angel2: although that wasnt the reason why i created this thread but its a good example, somehow to be tolerant nowadays it seems that i must completely agree with everyone or be involved/ not involved with certian groups or else im a bigot.

In what way did they threaten you? You simply said you were a Christian and they went off on you? There was no other context?

 

[tarasan]

In what way did they threaten you? You simply said you were a Christian and they went off on you? There was no other context?

erm.... fair enough I was with my Gay friend, he sent to the union a gay bar in belfast, (it took me 10 minutes to realise we were in one, eventually I realised there was a transvestite DJ and I realised) anyhoo outside we gotta talkin to some peeps and of course i said I was goin to bible college and well one of the guys didnt look well pleased, he made a comment and well started, you know asking me if I was goin to hell, and I said i didnt know and well he went off on one and his friends were supportin him and stuff so me and my mate left rather sharpish,

(btw my friend knew the guys)

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Tarasan you have to realize that a lot of this anti-Christian sentiment among gay people has been caused by Christians themselves for belittling gays and treating them as less then human beings who don't deserve the same rights as everyone else. I too cannot deny I am somewhat bitter.

 

[Smoke]

erm.... fair enough I was with my Gay friend, he sent to the union a gay bar in belfast, (it took me 10 minutes to realise we were in one, eventually I realised there was a transvestite DJ and I realised) anyhoo outside we gotta talkin to some peeps and of course i said I was goin to bible college and well one of the guys didnt look well pleased, he made a comment and well started, you know asking me if I was goin to hell, and I said i didnt know and well he went off on one and his friends were supportin him and stuff so me and my mate left rather sharpish,

So if I understand you correctly, you weren't attacked or threatened, but criticized. And your concern is that you believe Christians should have the right to freely criticize homosexuality, but you don't think it's appropriate for gay people to freely criticize Christianity.

Is that about right?

 

[Rainbow Mage]

When I saw this thread I wondered if that's what tarasan had directed it toward smoke.

 

[tarasan]

So if I understand you correctly, you weren't attacked or threatened, but criticized. And your concern is that you believe Christians should have the right to freely criticize homosexuality, but you don't think it's appropriate for gay people to freely criticize Christianity.

Is that about right?

no.... like i said he went off on one im sorry im not dictating a thousand of words describing what he said, it isnt like we where having a theological debate, he talked about how we were ALL intolerant and hateful and things to that effect, he was generalising he was being agressive and like I said threatening, and im ok with people criticising Christianity, so dont try and twist this to making it seem like im intolerant or something, and i wasnt criticising homosexuality i merely stated that I was in bible college.

Criticism is fine so long as its being done it a controled passive way, i disagree agree with all those sign waving fundies as much as you do.

I also disagree however with the other side as well I should have to yelled at by a person who doesnt know what I believe merely because i hold a different point of view, if said person and his cronies had asked me what i believed rather than tell me I would have been fine with it.

 

[tarasan]

When I saw this thread I wondered if that's what tarasan had directed it toward smoke.

it wasnt meant to be specifically abotu homosexuality I was just stupid enough to us a life situation as an example and now Im paying for it......

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Tarasan why do you think some gay people feel the need to be so defensive toward Christians in the first place? Mind answering me that? What made them that way?

 

[tarasan]

Tarasan why do you think some gay people feel the need to be so defensive toward Christians in the first place? Mind answering me that? What made them that way?

who cares!!! it was just an example of how tolerance can be used a bad way, this guy yelled at me and no one went to my defence, I didnt prove him, I did nothing but state what I did, whatever happened to him in the past gives him no right to degrade and yell at me nothing!

but this is just an example of how tolerance can be misused there are others as well.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Tarasan, Christians caused it when they started being so hateful toward gay people.

 

[tarasan]

Tarasan, Christians caused it when they started being so hateful toward gay people.

awesome congratulations for celebrating other people getting insulted and degraded based on what they believe, and thanks for heaping me in with all those sign waving people thats awesome too.....

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Tarasan I'm explaining to you why the gay guys might have reacted so strongly. It's only logical. Not all of us would react so quickly, btw. I am a little bitter toward fundamentalists, but I'd never just up and accuse you.

 

[DallasApple]

no.... like i said he went off on one im sorry im not dictating a thousand of words describing what he said, it isnt like we where having a theological debate, he talked about how we were ALL intolerant and hateful and things to that effect, he was generalising he was being agressive and like I said threatening, and im ok with people criticising Christianity, so dont try and twist this to making it seem like im intolerant or something, and i wasnt criticising homosexuality i merely stated that I was in bible college.

Criticism is fine so long as its being done it a controled passive way, i disagree agree with all those sign waving fundies as much as you do.

I also disagree however with the other side as well I should have to yelled at by a person who doesnt know what I believe merely because i hold a different point of view, if said person and his cronies had asked me what i believed rather than tell me I would have been fine with it.

Then dont be hateful and intolerant..and grow a back bone..

Love

Dallas

 

[tarasan]

Tarasan I'm explaining to you why the gay guys might have reacted so strongly. It's only logical. Not all of us would react so quickly, btw. I am a little bitter toward fundamentalists, but I'd never just up and accuse you.

there is no excuse if you preach tolerance you are tolerante if not your a hippocrite, what did to me degrades what all those equal right where for, and yet still you side with him.......

I bash and fight against those of my fiath that would stiffle others freedoms, I would never stand for bigotry but clearly your all up for defending bigots...

 

[Smoke]

no.... like i said he went off on one im sorry im not dictating a thousand of words describing what he said, it isnt like we where having a theological debate, he talked about how we were ALL intolerant and hateful and things to that effect

Gay people have had a lifetime of Christians telling us that we are all evil and a threat to civilization. A lot of us are very sick of it. You might manage a smile and a nod in another situation, but you particularly don't want to hear a bunch of Christian crap when you're out in a gay bar. So people are prone sometimes to overreact for reasons that aren't that hard to understand. But surely you can agree that this kind of overreaction is not an excess of tolerance, but a lack of tolerance.

im ok with people criticising Christianity, so dont try and twist this to making it seem like im intolerant or something

I'm not trying to twist anything. I'm trying to figure out what you're objecting to. So let's try it another way: In what bad ways do you feel that tolerance takes away people's freedom?

and i wasnt criticising homosexuality i merely stated that I was in bible college.

Well, you have to understand that "Bible college" is a particular kind of institution that is never, in my experience, gay-friendly. So the guys who criticized you were well within their rights to assume that regardless of whether you are personally hostile to gay people, you're very comfortable with institutional hostility to gay people. And frankly, I don't blame them for unloading on you, though I wouldn't have done so myself. The Bible college mentality is a big part of what's caused so much injustice and suffering for gay people. If you walk into a black club and announce that you belong to the Klan, people are going to get their backs up.

 

[tarasan]

Then dont be hateful and intolerant..and grow a back bone..

Love

Dallas

did i say i was hateful or intolerant? in in fact in that very message that you sight I CLEARLY CONDEM THOSE WHO ARE!!!

I merely ask that the same proceedings be done for those of the other side, what you just did is the exact thing this post was about, tolerance that defends a minority even though they are clearly in the wrong.

 

[DallasApple]

did i say i was hateful or intolerant? in in fact in that very message that you sight I CLEARLY CONDEM THOSE WHO ARE!!!

I merely ask that the same proceedings be done for those of the other side, what you just did is the exact thing this post was about, tolerance that defends a minority even though they are clearly in the wrong.

Are you mixed up in the head?

Love


Dallas

 

[Rainbow Mage]

I am not calling you intolerent tarasan, I'm explaining to you why those gay guys likely reacted to you like they did. Christians have been persecuting gay people for decades, and even if it's not all Christians, it's enough of them to make gays bitter. Do not blame them for decades of intolerence on the part of Christians.

 

[tarasan]

Gay people have had a lifetime of Christians telling us that we are all evil and a threat to civilization. A lot of us are very sick of it. You might manage a smile and a nod in another situation, but you particularly don't want to hear a bunch of Christian crap when you're out in a gay bar. So people are prone sometimes to overreact for reasons that aren't that hard to understand. But surely you can agree that this kind of overreaction is not an excess of tolerance, but a lack of tolerance.

excellent some people did bad things to you so now i do bad things to you people.... awesome mentality, and yes it is a lack of tolerance, on thier part.

I'm not trying to twist anything. I'm trying to figure out what you're objecting to. So let's try it another way: In what bad ways do you feel that tolerance takes away people's freedom?

considering when that tolerance of said group allows them to do what others would not, if I started yelling at a homosexual for what he was, I would be pulled up for it, however when they do it, nothing.... even when i was disscussing it with my secular friends they were ok with it, ****** me off.

Well, you have to understand that "Bible college" is a particular kind of institution that is never, in my experience, gay-friendly. So the guys who criticized you were well within their rights to assume that regardless of whether you are personally hostile to gay people, you're very comfortable with institutional hostility to gay people. And frankly, I don't blame them for unloading on you, though I wouldn't have done so myself. The Bible college mentality is a big part of what's caused so much injustice and suffering for gay people. If you walk into a black club and announce that you belong to the Klan, people are going to get their backs up.

I was with a gay friend, i had walked out of a gay bar...... talking to said gay friend, who they knew...... if i was in any way intolerant of them, why would i be there? why would i be talking with their friend? it doesnt make sense.