Tommy Robinson: Arrest and Gag order in the UK

[icehorse]

People from the provinces said the same about blacks in London a generation ago. London is one of the world's most diverse cultural melting pots. If you can only cope with white faces and meat-and-two-veg, you'd best stay in the country*.

As for this "host population" "funding all of this", what ballocks. Muslims in London work just as hard as anyone. There is no reason to think they do not pull their weight financially.

*Whether that country is the UK or Russia.

A casual observer to this thread might conclude that you're the racist in the conversation. If you think about it, you have to admit that it's a racist statement to compare the treatment of black people to the treatment of Muslims, no?

 

[Wotans Krieger]

People from the provinces said the same about blacks in London a generation ago. London is one of the world's most diverse cultural melting pots. If you can only cope with white faces and meat-and-two-veg, you'd best stay in the country*.

As for this "host population" "funding all of this", what ballocks. Muslims in London work just as hard as anyone. There is no reason to think they do not pull their weight financially.

*Whether that country is the UK or Russia.

London is sadly no longer an English city and my reference to feeling a foreigner there was the Tower of Babel experience. You need a phrasebook to survive in London.
The resources of the English belong to the English as does their land and before you accuse me of racism again I would say exactly the same thing about the Red Indians-their fate will become ours unless we resist.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

I am generally suspicious of gag orders.

One thing I believe is "If you don't want it known that you are doing something, you probably shouldn't be doing it."
Tom

In some cases I would agree, but it's far from universal.
Consider...you're a gay man. Depending on where and when you lived, you may very well not want that known.

 

[exchemist]

I note that it is the cossetted cosmopolitan middle class university educated professionals and their elite masters who insist on inflicting the multiracial society upon the rest of it. I have news for you-we don't want it. I am not impressed by your 'career'-I know that must damage your precious self-esteem. Just sit back and watch whilst England is destroyed by the traitors in Westminster-your ancestors will be proud.

UKIP voter?

 

[exchemist]

Londoners are wonderful people...I admire them so much
They are so strong...

With a mayor like theirs..honestly...I would commit suicide.
I'd drown myself in the Tiber

Or the Neva.

 

[exchemist]

A casual observer to this thread might conclude that you're the racist in the conversation. If you think about it, you have to admit that it's a racist statement to compare the treatment of black people to the treatment of Muslims, no?

Eh?

 

[sayak83]

A casual observer to this thread might conclude that you're the racist in the conversation. If you think about it, you have to admit that it's a racist statement to compare the treatment of black people to the treatment of Muslims, no?

No, why would it be racist. Its quite correct.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

1 - Can you define "hate speech"? In the US, so-called "hate speech" is protected.

Speech intended to incite hatred, violence, mistrust or direct abuse towards a particular group.

2 - Can you cite instances of racist speech committed by Tommy Robinson?

"Every single Muslim watching this... on 7/7 you got away with killing and maiming British citizens... you had better understand that we have built a network from one end of the country to the other end... and the Islamic community will feel the full force of the English Defense League if we see any of our British citizens killed, maimed, or hurt on British soil ever again."
SOURCE:

 

[ImmortalFlame]

The "about" page on the EDL website specifically states that the EDL does not do that. It distinguishes between normal Muslims and those who are in pursuit of Sharia.

Tommy Robinson has explicitly attacked and accused "every Muslim" multiple times.

I understand that the EDL is an easy target for the press.

And yet I wonder if you know why that is.

But it also strikes me that the press almost universally tow the party line when it comes to support of "multi-culturalism".

And I also wonder if you know why that is.

And further, it strikes me that all through Europe, "multiculturalism" has been poorly implemented and such poor implementation is leading to many significant problems.

Or maybe you're misplacing your worries in an attempt to oversimplify a far more complicated situation.

 

[Alfred Horn]

Londoners are wonderful people...I admire them so much
They are so strong...

With a mayor like theirs..honestly...I would commit suicide.
I'd drown myself in the Tiber

And they say that they are not 'taking over'.

 

[Altfish]

Tommy Robinson is an extremely outspoken critic of Britain's immigration policies. He frequently speaks and protests against the massive influx of Muslims into Britain. He has been in trouble with the law, and many consider him to be "far right" (as reported in the independent.uk article linked below).

A few days back he was outside a courthouse reporting on the case of Muslims being tried for "grooming" (i.e. sex trafficking).

He was arrested for "breaching the peace". Within the span of a day, the judge tried him, convicted him, sent him to prison, and issued a gag order to the press. There are reports that he was not allowed counsel.

I find all of the authority's actions shocking. I'm also linking to several news sources. The most "central" seems to be the independent.uk. I find it striking how different the independent's reporting is to Gatestone's reporting. It's clear that Gatestone is an advocacy journalism organization, they are strongly anti-Islam and pro-Israel. But to me, their reporting seems objectively far more honest than the independent's reporting. (As a side note, it would appear that many large news organizations are honoring the gag order, if anyone finds more mainstream reporting, please provide links!)

thoughts?

Hundreds demonstrate in Downing Street after far-right figure Tommy Robinson arrested

UK: You're Not Allowed to Talk about It. About What? Don't Ask.

Right-wing activist Tommy Robinson reportedly jailed after filming outside child grooming trial

He was jailed for breaking contempt of court laws with a Facebook Live video...

Tommy Robinson jailed after breaking contempt of court laws

"He admitted committing contempt of court by publishing information that could prejudice an ongoing trial via a live stream on his Facebook page."

So it is NOT Freedom of Speech

 

[exchemist]

And they say that they are not 'taking over'.

Imbecile remark. Like suggesting Obama's presidency shows the blacks are "taking over" in the USA.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Looks like the story finally reached snopes.com:


"On 28 May 2018, the “alternative medicine” and conspiracy theory site NaturalNews.com claimedthat Robinson had been silenced without due process in order to “protect Muslim pedophiles” because “the UK government is run by criminal pedophiles who rely on Muslim pedo networks to provide a steady supply of nine and ten-year-old little girls and boys.” Conspiracy theorist Alex Jones described the episode as “historic” and his Infowars web site called the arrest of Robinson “the beginning of the end for free speech in Europe.”

These claims are based on a wild misunderstanding of a very basic principle in the UK’s legal system. Far from being a “historic” violation of due process, Robinson was jailed because a court judged he had breached the terms of an existing suspended sentence for contempt of court by violating a set of reporting restrictions often placed on the news media and others in the United Kingdom in order to protect the due process rights of defendants and prevent the collapse of trials, something that could jeopardize the conviction of potentially guilty and dangerous individuals.

The “media blackout” on the child sexual abuse trial referred to by NaturalNews.com was not designed to “protect Muslim pedophiles,” but rather to protect the integrity of the child sexual abuse trial itself, prevent a costly re-trial, and avoid witnesses having to go through the trauma of testifying in court again.

Reporting restrictions such as those imposed in the child sexual abuse case in question are temporary, meaning that the news media can reveal previously-censored details after the trial has concluded. So Robinson was not jailed for engaging in journalism, or for merely reporting on alleged criminality. He was jailed for violating a court order, breaching the terms of an existing suspended sentence, and potentially risking the collapse of an ongoing trial."
SOURCE: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/tommy-robinson-arrest/


Gee, so it looks like all along this was merely the right-wing media forcing a completely fictitious spin on a story that is otherwise about a loudmouthed, racist, criminal bigot doing something blatantly illegal in order to lionize the aforementioned loudmouthed, racist, criminal bigot and present him as some form of messianic figure rather than the loudmouthed, racist, criminal bigot he is, and to present the British press and legal system as oppressive merely for doing the very thing they exist to do and holding up the rule of law.

Who'd of thunk it?!*

*except for literally every sensible, non-reactionary person in this thread.

 

[LuisDantas]

No, why would it be racist. Its quite correct.

Is it, though?

Muslims are a belief group, as opposed to an ethnic one. A big part of what makes them Muslims is at least nominal support for a strongly political ideology.

 

[icehorse]

No, why would it be racist. Its quite correct.

Muslims are not a race. Even if all Muslims happened to be of a race, being a Muslim is a choice (or in any civilized country it would be), whereas being of a race is not a choice.

 

[icehorse]

Speech intended to incite hatred, violence, mistrust or direct abuse towards a particular group.

In the US, when determining whether speech is protected or not, the key phrase is "imminent violence". Hate speech is different, and as I said earlier, in the US, hate speech is legal.

As for the tweets, I would say that the Pakistani comments are racist, but the Muslim comments are not.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

In the US, when determining whether speech is protected or not, the key phrase is "imminent violence". Hate speech is different, and as I said earlier, in the US, hate speech is legal.

Cool. It's not here, though, which is more to the point.

As for the tweets, I would say that the Pakistani comments are racist, but the Muslim comments are not.

So you acknowledge Tommy Robinson is a racist, then?

 

[icehorse]

Tommy Robinson has explicitly attacked and accused "every Muslim" multiple times.

I'm simply reading from the EDL website, which makes that crucial distinction.

Or maybe you're misplacing your worries in an attempt to oversimplify a far more complicated situation.

I never claimed it was a simple situation. That said, we ought to start by being honest about the values and ideas held by the people involved. What I see in much of Europe's leaders is denial about the core values of Islamic fundamentalists. That cannot be a good foundation for solving a complex problem.

 

[icehorse]

So you acknowledge Tommy Robinson is a racist, then?

For the sake of discussion, sure, let's say he's a racist. So what? Does that make his concerns about mass immigration wrong?

 

[ImmortalFlame]

I'm simply reading from the EDL website, which makes that crucial distinction.

Which is irrelevant, because we're addressing the words and actions of Tommy Robinson, not the claimed and stated intent of the EDL.

I never claimed it was a simple situation. That said, we ought to start by being honest about the values and ideas held by the people involved.

Okay then. Tommy Robinson is a racist, criminal bigot who broke a court order and committed an illegal act. And while we're being honest about our ideas and values: you jumped to defend him and accuse the British legal system of censoring him why?

What I see in much of Europe's leaders is denial about the core values of Islamic fundamentalists. That cannot be a good foundation for solving a complex problem.

Sure, but that has absolutely no relation to this case of a racist, criminal bigot doing something illegal and being prosecuted in accordance with the law for it, and trying to defend and lionize him for doing so is baffling and makes matters significantly worse. Or do you not see why defending a known racist who deliberately agitates and antagonizes Muslim communities and paints them with a disparaging and broad brush when he commits a blatantly criminal act just so he can continue to antagonize and target Muslims also cannot be good for solving the foundation of the problem?