Too Much Religion?

[TransmutingSoul]

What does that mean?

I see that when one has found Faith in God/Allah, it then becomes ones life. Every thought and action is motivated by that Faith. This is a journey of finding ones true self.

All that one thinks, all that one does in life and work and how one interacts with all people, is motivated by what the Faith teaches. In this manner one hopes that they can serve all humanity allowing the unconstraind God/Allah to shine from within.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Why should I need to ask a theist? Is there something about "religious faith" that an atheist (or other non-believer) cannot understand?

I would offer that to know and love God is the ultimate aim of this life, the apex of all knowledge, science included. This is the foundation and aim of all Faiths.

Thus can we say an Athiest can know this, but on the other hand if they have not embraced this, they have not understood it?

Faith is a connection of heart and mind with its maker, a connection to the source of all things.

The Bible teaches this concept as being born again.

Regards Tony

 

[Vinayaka]

I know a guy who was so busy being 'religious' he was letting his family starve. His wife left him, taking the kids. Poor guy still doesn't understand.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Yes. A fixation on anything is unhealthy. If an emergency comes up, and you can't attend to it because you have a 'more important religious function' then yes you've got a problem. Addictive behaviour comes in many sizes and shapes.

Could it be that the example you have put forward would be a neglect of ones religion, not a result of being religious?

I see that the apex of religion is fewness of words and an abundance of deeds.

Maybe we need to define what is 'Too Religious', have you defined it in your comment as 'addictive behaviour'?

Regards Tony

 

[Vinayaka]

Could it be that the example you have put forward would be a neglect of ones religion, not a result of being religious?

I thought it was neglect. He thought he was religious. Who knows who was right? We all have differing definitions of 'religious' after all. You and others consider proselytising a merit, I consider it adharma.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I thought it was neglect. He thought he was religious. Who knows who was right? We all have differing definitions of 'religious' after all. You and others consider proselytising a merit, I consider it adharma.

Well as the op was about too religious, it would be good to look at what that is as per common defintion.

religious adjective 1.1 relating to or believing in a religion. "both men were deeply religious and moralistic" .2 synonyms:devout, pious, reverent, believing, godly, Godfearing, dutiful, saintly, holy, prayerful, churchgoing, practising, faithful, devoted, committed "he was a very religious person"

Thus the person practicing being religious is not necessarily neglectful. One can become neglectful in practice.

There is an example in what you offered, as you are well aware that it is against Baha'i Law to proselytise. It would be neglectful of our religious practice to do so.

What people see as proselytising also varies. Thus to define what it is, is also useful.

Regards Tony

 

[Vinayaka]

Well as the op was about too religious, it would be good to look at what that is as per common defintion.

There is an example in what you offered, as you are well aware that it is against Baha'i Law to proselytise. It would be neglectful of our religious practice to do so.

As I said, Tony, peoples' definitions vary. That means that there is no one definition that suits all. So trying to get one is a matter of projecting your sense onto others. For example, if we go by morality alone, a moral good living atheist is by far a more 'religious' person that some ranting preacher who has a mistress or a gambling addiction on the side. But if we go by 'God- fearing' or time spent on religion, the preacher wins ... hands down.

As for proselytizing, only Baha'is think they don't proselytize. The rest of humanity believes they do. So to each his own definition. I have no problem looking at it from the bigger picture.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

As I said, Tony, peoples' definitions vary. That means that there is no one definition that suits all. So trying to get one is a matter of projecting your sense onto others. For example, if we go by morality alone, a moral good living atheist is by far a more 'religious' person that some ranting preacher who has a mistress or a gambling addiction on the side. But if we go by 'God- fearing' or time spent on religion, the preacher wins ... hands down.

As for proselytizing, only Baha'is think they don't proselytize. The rest of humanity believes they do. So to each his own definition. I have no problem looking at it from the bigger picture.

I am happy for you to see it all however you have choosen to do. I have no motivation to change your views, as I can change no person but my own self.

My motivation is to but offer to any person that asks, or questions, or comments as to what I have found. In this maybe a balance may be found. You know we agree on your atheist view posted above.

I see the bigger picture as we must define as to create a society all can live in. If we do not define, then how is law made?

Thus in the end, moderation of extremes is required.

Regards Tony

 

[Vinayaka]

I see the bigger picture as we must define as to create a society all can live in. If we do not define, then how is law made?

People do try to define terms like 'religious' and 'proselytizing' but history tells us that there has rarely been a consensus. So rather than continuing the seemingly futile attempt to agree. don't you think it's better to get over that, and just accept that there will always be these sorts of differences. I've accepted that whatever actions the Baha'i do that promotes the faith is called (by Baha'i) something different them proselytizing. Is it too much to ask to have Baha'i think about accepting that others may have a differing viewpoint that isn't likely to change?

In my own definition of 'religious', I'm personally not religious at all. It's a label I can do without.

 

[youknowme]

The question is just weird to me because "too much" implies we can somehow quantify the subject under investigation. Religion and religiosity revolves around qualitative experiences that resist quantification. I can't conceptualize what "too much" or "too little" would even look like.

Regardless, even if one quantified something that is not quantitative by nature, in this case the exercise would become little more than "I like this" and "I don't like this" given the cultural diversity in the substance of those quantities.

It seems weird to you because you are naively trying to shove a linguistic framework into a data framework. Things don't work that way, not everything in the universe falls neatly into those two categories.

People use gradations all the time to express themselves, such as: "He put in too little effort" or "Those kids have too much freedom". You can literally sit here and think of example after example. It is a grammatical modifier that we use to express ourselves.

Furthermore, you are not even interpreting it correctly if we were in a data framework. The state of being "too much" would be categorical. For example: “There is too much blue in our new logo” or “There is too little blue in our new logo”. "Too much" is not a measurement, you don't find it on a scale nor do you find it on a tape measure.

Even if we were dealing with something that you could measure quantitatively, the state of being “too much” would still be a category. For example, the amount of sugar in tea, we can measure how many grams of sugar go into the tea but there is no universal measurement of “too much”. The response “that is too much sugar” would be categorical and vary from person to person. The best you could do is approximate a range for grams of sugar when people generally consider it to be “too much”, but that range would still fall into the category of “too much” and it would still be a generalization (at best).

OK? Maybe go back to your books and review those terms.

 

[youknowme]

I see that when one has found Faith in God/Allah, it then becomes ones life. Every thought and action is motivated by that Faith. This is a journey of finding ones true self.

All that one thinks, all that one does in life and work and how one interacts with all people, is motivated by what the Faith teaches. In this manner one hopes that they can serve all humanity allowing the unconstraind God/Allah to shine from within.

Regards Tony

So your entire life is limited by the scope of what you consider "faith"? Don't you think there is more to life?

 

[youknowme]

I believe my wife and kids thought so but I was content.

What does that mean? Did you lose your wife and kids over your religion?

 

[youknowme]

I know a guy who was so busy being 'religious' he was letting his family starve. His wife left him, taking the kids. Poor guy still doesn't understand.

I think that would be a very good example of too much religion. It hurt those around him.

Personally, I think it may be possible for people to get addicted to religion and end up spending so much time and effort towards those aims that they let the other aspects of their life fall apart.

 

[youknowme]

I would offer that to know and love God is the ultimate aim of this life, the apex of all knowledge, science included. This is the foundation and aim of all Faiths.

Thus can we say an Athiest can know this, but on the other hand if they have not embraced this, they have not understood it?

Faith is a connection of heart and mind with its maker, a connection to the source of all things.

The Bible teaches this concept as being born again.

Regards Tony

How much do you really know about science?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

So your entire life is limited by the scope of what you consider "faith"? Don't you think there is more to life?

Faith includes life and all it offers. Life is lived to the wisdom given of Faith.

Regards Tony

 

[youknowme]

Faith includes life and all it offers. Life is lived to the wosdom of Faith.

How would you know? You think faith is all there is, you live in a bubble.

 

[Vinayaka]

I think that would be a very good example of too much religion. It hurt those around him.

Personally, I think it may be possible for people to get addicted to religion and end up spending so much time and effort towards those aims that they let the other aspects of their life fall apart.

I concur. It's sad that some folks don't see it. I only know of a couple of divorces because of it though. Not the most common cause of divorce. Other folks, for whatever reason, just 'suck it up' as they say, and give in to the demands of the spouse, or relative who is too religious. So then you just have an unhappy marriage, with onlookers wondering why he/she stays with him/her.

There is a time and place. For example, i do more 'ritualistic religious' stuff now than when we were raising kids. (I'm retired) Now I have some free time. Still, raising kids, to me, was a more religious activity than doing ritual.

So for those people who fall into the pitfalls of religious addiction, one certainly wonders how in the world they can view themselves as happier, or better people.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

How much do you really know about science?

How much does science really know?

Baha'u'llah has said science and religion must be ad the wings of one bird, not until they do, will the bird fly. At the moment it flutters waiting for that day.

We do now know that ever planet has its own creatures, Baha'u'llah has written, "...know thou that every fixed star hath its own planets, and every planet its own creatures, whose number no man can compute..."

We also know they have life;

"...The earth has its inhabitants, the water and the air contain many living beings… then how is it possible to conceive that these stupendous stellar bodies are not inhabited? Verily, they are peopled, but let it be known that the dwellers accord with the elements of their respective spheres. These living beings do not have states of consciousness like unto those who live on the surface of this globe: the power of adaptation and environment molds their bodies and states of consciousness, just as our bodies and minds are suited to our planet...." – Abdu’l-Baha, Divine Philosophy, pp. 114-115.

We also know there is other intelligance on other planets capable of knowing God;

"O people! I swear by the one true God! ... Through His potency the Trees of Divine Revelation have yielded their fruits, every one of which hath been sent down in the form of a Prophet, bearing a Message to God's creatures in each of the worlds whose number God, alone, in His all-encompassing Knowledge, can reckon."

We have a long way to go in bith Faith and Science, before the bird can fly.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I think that would be a very good example of too much religion. It hurt those around him.

Personally, I think it may be possible for people to get addicted to religion and end up spending so much time and effort towards those aims that they let the other aspects of their life fall apart.

That is not restricted just to religion. Using something as it is not mean to be used, does not mean that others can not use it for the greater good.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

How would you know? You think faith is all there is, you live in a bubble.

I live in this world as you do. Thus I ask have you strived not to be of this world?

If you have, then you can know there is no bubble. If you have not, it may be the bubble you mention, is this world where thoughts are encased.

Regards Tony