Too Much Religion?

[youknowme]

How much does science really know?

Baha'u'llah has said science and religion must be ad the wings of one bird, not until they do, will the bird fly. At the moment it flutters waiting for that day.

We do now know that ever planet has its own creatures, Baha'u'llah has written, "...know thou that every fixed star hath its own planets, and every planet its own creatures, whose number no man can compute..."

We also know they have life;

"...The earth has its inhabitants, the water and the air contain many living beings… then how is it possible to conceive that these stupendous stellar bodies are not inhabited? Verily, they are peopled, but let it be known that the dwellers accord with the elements of their respective spheres. These living beings do not have states of consciousness like unto those who live on the surface of this globe: the power of adaptation and environment molds their bodies and states of consciousness, just as our bodies and minds are suited to our planet...." – Abdu’l-Baha, Divine Philosophy, pp. 114-115.

We also know there is other intelligance on other planets capable of knowing God;

"O people! I swear by the one true God! ... Through His potency the Trees of Divine Revelation have yielded their fruits, every one of which hath been sent down in the form of a Prophet, bearing a Message to God's creatures in each of the worlds whose number God, alone, in His all-encompassing Knowledge, can reckon."

We have a long way to go in bith Faith and Science, before the bird can fly.

Regards Tony

Not at all interested in your sales pitch. That is not going to work on me.

Now it seems to me that your religion tells you that you need to learn science, but yet you don't actually seem to know anything at all about science. So why is it that you do not follow the teachings of your own faith?

 

[Vinayaka]

How much does science really know?

Baha'u'llah has said science and religion must be ad the wings of one bird, not until they do, will the bird fly. At the moment it flutters waiting for that day.

We do now know that ever planet has its own creatures, Baha'u'llah has written, "...know thou that every fixed star hath its own planets, and every planet its own creatures, whose number no man can compute..."

We also know they have life;

"...The earth has its inhabitants, the water and the air contain many living beings… then how is it possible to conceive that these stupendous stellar bodies are not inhabited? Verily, they are peopled, but let it be known that the dwellers accord with the elements of their respective spheres. These living beings do not have states of consciousness like unto those who live on the surface of this globe: the power of adaptation and environment molds their bodies and states of consciousness, just as our bodies and minds are suited to our planet...." – Abdu’l-Baha, Divine Philosophy, pp. 114-115.

We also know there is other intelligance on other planets capable of knowing God;

"O people! I swear by the one true God! ... Through His potency the Trees of Divine Revelation have yielded their fruits, every one of which hath been sent down in the form of a Prophet, bearing a Message to God's creatures in each of the worlds whose number God, alone, in His all-encompassing Knowledge, can reckon."

We have a long way to go in bith Faith and Science, before the bird can fly.

Regards Tony

I think he asked what you knew about science, not what Baha'u'llah thought (vaguely) about science.

 

[Vinayaka]

We do now know that ever planet has its own creatures, Baha'u'llah has written,

So you believe Mercury is filled with creatures, as is Neptune, the gas giant, and the poisonous Venus. I think most scientists would be a bit more than skeptical about this sort of wild conjecture. Of course you're not, because of that infallibility thing?

 

[wandering peacefully]

Come on now. . . you can't entertain an idea without accepting it?

It is about trust, putting trust in a divine source and trusting that divine source will lead you down the correct path even if your mind is clouded by uncertainty.

Considering divine inspiration exists only in the minds of people who believe such a thing exists, you are just as well off putting your faith in the abilities of your own path.

In reality it is the same trust and source. You are more likely to be able to make changes or corrections in your course if you are not nailed to inflexibility .

 

[Sunstone]

Is that always a bad thing? Aren't some ideas worth dying for?

To die for an idea is not necessarily the same as elevating an ideology above human life. Let's say, for instance, that you were to sacrifice your life in order to "free your country from tyranny". Are you really sacrificing your life for an idea there? I don't think so. Rather you are sacrificing your life for the people who would benefit from freedom.

Words can mask that fact. We speak of sacrificing for this or that idea -- but in reality, we usually mean we are sacrificing for other humans.

 

[dybmh]

To die for an idea is not necessarily the same as elevating an ideology above human life. Let's say, for instance, that you were to sacrifice your life in order to "free your country from tyranny". Are you really sacrificing your life for an idea there? I don't think so. Rather you are sacrificing your life for the people who would benefit from freedom.

Words can mask that fact. We speak of sacrificing for this or that idea -- but in reality, we usually mean we are sacrificing for other humans.

Respectfully, you are making a principled argument.

From a practical perspective: would your answer change if the individual's version of tyranny was the American Government?

Ideas in the human mind are too easy to be manipulated to be trusted to make life or death decisions. They can also be negatively affected by external factors like lack of food, shelter, and education. When people are desperate, their ideas become warped by their circumstances.

An individual's ideas can change over time. Given the opportunity, they might realize later that their ideas were wrong or based on emotion. Self-sacrifice would mean this opportunity is lost.

It's semantics, but I think it's an important distinction. The decision to die for a cause should be based on evidence not on ideology. Human ideas are too fallible.

In the example you present, I propose that containment of tyranny is better than self-sacrifice. I have trouble imagining a real world circumstance where self-sacrifice would result in an end to a tyrannical regime.

However to be fair, if a real world example exists where containment is 100% certain to fail; I agree with you in principle.

 

[youknowme]

To die for an idea is not necessarily the same as elevating an ideology above human life. Let's say, for instance, that you were to sacrifice your life in order to "free your country from tyranny". Are you really sacrificing your life for an idea there? I don't think so. Rather you are sacrificing your life for the people who would benefit from freedom.

Words can mask that fact. We speak of sacrificing for this or that idea -- but in reality, we usually mean we are sacrificing for other humans.

I am not sure that is an entirely true, and I don't think you can so cleanly separate them.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Not at all interested in your sales pitch. That is not going to work on me.

Now it seems to me that your religion tells you that you need to learn science, but yet you don't actually seem to know anything at all about science. So why is it that you do not follow the teachings of your own faith?

I'm not selling. You asked the question. I will leave you to it all.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I think he asked what you knew about science, not what Baha'u'llah thought (vaguely) about science.

I then quoted from what I see as the source of all science, thus in context to what the OP is about.

That you or another might not see it that way, is of course an alternate view and a alternate opinion.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

So you believe Mercury is filled with creatures, as is Neptune, the gas giant, and the poisonous Venus. I think most scientists would be a bit more than skeptical about this sort of wild conjecture. Of course you're not, because of that infallibility thing?

Yes for me it is known as Baha'u'llah has told us of it. That it is not yet found by science, could be a source of amazement or longing wonder rather than skepticism, if they so choose.

That we will be able to traverse time and space easily and swiftly with the aid of magnetism, can also be seen as people so wish.

The full quote posted above in shorter detail, explains further how these creatures are in tune with their environment.

"The earth has its inhabitants, the water and the air contain many living beings and all the elements have their nature spirits, then how is it possible to conceive that these stupendous stellar bodies are not inhabited? Verily, they are peopled, but let it be known that the dwellers accord with the elements of their respective spheres. These living beings do not have states of consciousness like unto those who live on the surface of this globe: the power of adaptation and environment moulds their bodies and states of consciousness, just as our bodies and minds are suited to our planet. For example, we have birds that live in the air, those that live on the earth and those that live in the sea... The components of the sun differ from those of this earth, for there are certain light and life-giving elements radiating from the sun. Exactly the same elements may exist in two bodies, but in varying quantities. For instance, there is fire and air in water, but the allotted measure is small in proportion. They have discovered that there is a great quantity of radium in the sun; the same element is found on the earth, but in a much smaller degree. Beings who inhabit those distant luminous bodies are attuned to the elements that have gone into their composition of their respective spheres." (‘Abdu’l-Bahá, Divine Philosophy, p. 114-115)

One can choose to see this with skepticism, or science could use it to try discover life in a different way than they are now looking.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

In the example you present, I propose that containment of tyranny is better than self-sacrifice. I have trouble imagining a real world circumstance where self-sacrifice would result in an end to a tyrannical regime.

However to be fair, if a real world example exists where containment is 100% certain to fail; I agree with you in principle.

I see that people that have given, still give and will give their lives in faith and for just causes, are aware that each sacrifice does add to the change that will happen.

As per the OP, this may be seen by some as too religious, for others it is the essence of Faith, the ultimate gift one can give for all others.

Regards Tony

 

[lukethethird]

I believe a person without religion is like wave on the sea tossed this way and that.

That sounds like you believe you are better than someone without religion.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Is it possible to have too much religion and/or to be too religious? What do you think and why? If so what would that entail?

Currently true religion is extremely rare, almost non existent and what the world needs most and urgently if we are to live in peace and prosperity.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Currently true religion is extremely rare, almost non existent and what the world needs most and urgently if we are to live in peace and prosperity.

We need to find unity, that is for sure.

Regards Tony

 

[loverofhumanity]

We need to find unity, that is for sure.

Regards Tony

Hi Tony. Yes true religion would bring about world brotherhood not what we have today which is world fragmentation.

 

[Jumi]

It's possible to be "too much" of just about everything. It means that one places too much emphasis on other things than reality. It's quite funny actually that someone too religious can be less religious than someone who is not "too much" because it depends on what they take religion to be.

 

[PureX]

I don't think the problem is "too much" religion, exactly, I think it's that religionists too often turn their religion into their God. To the point that they worship and blindly obey their own religious ideology and trappings as if these were God. And then demand that everyone else do the same, or stand condemned for refusing.

 

[dybmh]

I see that people that have given, still give and will give their lives in faith and for just causes, are aware that each sacrifice does add to the change that will happen.

Are they aware of the negative consequences that result from their own loss of life?

Faith is beautiful, powerful, and should be protected. For me, I have faith that each person's life is infinitely important in a way that I cannot know. So for me, I advocate for protecting my enemy's life through containment and not sacrificing the life of the self.

The one possible exception I can think of is: a real prophet whose mind is not like mine, who knows the consequences of the self-sacrifice, and whose purpose is for human benefit. Otherwise, a human mind should not trust itself with a matter like choosing to die for a cause or an ideology. The ramifications cannot be predicted.

 

[David1967]

Is it possible to have too much religion and/or to be too religious? What do you think and why? If so what would that entail?

If your religion inspires you to treat others better and be more compassionate, then great. If the way you interpret your religion causes you to treat others badly, then I would say you are better off without it.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Are they aware of the negative consequences that result from their own loss of life?

Faith is beautiful, powerful, and should be protected. For me, I have faith that each person's life is infinitely important in a way that I cannot know. So for me, I advocate for protecting my enemy's life through containment and not sacrificing the life of the self.

The one possible exception I can think of is: a real prophet whose mind is not like mine, who knows the consequences of the self-sacrifice, and whose purpose is for human benefit. Otherwise, a human mind should not trust itself with a matter like choosing to die for a cause or an ideology. The ramifications cannot be predicted.

I would say if it was for 'a real prophet whose mind is not like mine', then it must be within the guidance given. One can not take ones life away foolishly, but it is Gods to grant and take.

Regards Tony