Top 10 Reassons Jesus is not God

[Theweirdtophat]

The person in the video claims that Jesus never claimed divintiy. I believe that is false. He equated Himself with Goid by saying "I and my Father are one."

I don't think he meant that literally. There's a lot of things people misinterpret or misunderstand in the bible sometimes. Sometimes when people say "God is here" and point to their heart, that's what he meant to say, is that we are all part of life and that he and God are separate but one at the same time.

 

[metis]

I believe Jesus did not say that He is the same as the Father, only that He is one with HIm.

Which is what I said in post #4, so we are on the same page as far as what we think the scriptural reference most likely refers to.

 

[Desert Snake]

Jesus and The Father are in perfect agreement which is written "one".

Actually, that wouldn't be written as 'one'. Just saying; I'm not concerned with this debate

 

[leibowde84]

1. God can't be born.

I believe this is false. There is nothing in any text that says God can't be born. It is true that God has always existed as a spirit but a spirit can reside in a body and that is what the everlasting God has done in Jesus.

Even if it did "say so in a text", that would not prove in any way whatsoever whether or not it could be possible.

 

[savagewind]

Actually, that wouldn't be written as 'one'. Just saying; I'm not concerned with this debate

NASB Translation "one" Strong's 1520
agreement (1), alike* (1), alone (3), common (1), detail (1), first (9), individual (2), individually* (1), lone (1), man (1), nothing* (1), one (282), one another (1), one man (2), one thing (5), one* (2), person (1), single (1), smallest (1), someone (2), thirty-nine* (1), unity (1).

Romans 12:4 For just as each of us has one body with many members, and these members do not all have the same function

There is only one body, the body of the man Jesus, who was prepared from the beginning of God's purpose for the Earth, which body God would occupy as a temple for the will of God.

God is not two or three. God is ONE.

 

[Muffled]

Obviously! What "God can't be born" means is YHVH has no beginning which beginning takes place at a person's birth.

I believe you could not get any more illogical than that.

 

[savagewind]

I believe you could not get any more illogical than that.

The beginning of a person takes place at conception. The beginning of a person for this world takes place at birth. What is illogical about it?

YHVH has no conception and no birth.

 

[Muffled]

For I did not speak on my own, but the Father who sent me commanded me to say all that I have spoken.John 12:49
Deuteronomy 18:18
I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their fellow Israelites, and I will put my words in his mouth. He will tell them everything I command him.
John 5:19
Jesus gave them this answer: "Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does."
John 7:16
Jesus answered, "My teaching is not my own. It comes from the one who sent me."
John 8:26
"I have much to say in judgment of you. But he who sent me is trustworthy, and what I have heard from him I tell the world."
John 8:28
So Jesus said, "When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am he and that I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me.
John 14:10
Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.
John 14:24
Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.
John 14:31
but he comes so that the world may learn that I love the Father and do exactly what my Father has commanded me. Come now; let us leave.

I believe you still haven't provided any scripture that says Jesus sacrificed Himself to God.

I agree.

It is a pretty common saying among Christians.

 

[Muffled]

Savagewind said "The beginning of a person takes place at conception. The beginning of a person for this world takes place at birth. What is illogical about it? YHVH has no conception and no birth. "

I believe Yahweh does have a conception and birth according to scripture.

 

[Muffled]

Muffled said: ↑
I believe I have shown where the gospels agree with me and that you have not shown where you think they disagree.

Right here:

2. THere is no explicit statement by Jesus that He is God.

I believe when Jesus says I and my Father are one that He can't get any more explicit than that.

 

[savagewind]

Savagewind said "The beginning of a person takes place at conception. The beginning of a person for this world takes place at birth. What is illogical about it? YHVH has no conception and no birth. "

I believe Yahweh does have a conception and birth according to scripture.

OK. WHO conceived God? Or what?

 

[savagewind]

2. THere is no explicit statement by Jesus that He is God.

I believe when Jesus says I and my Father are one that He can't get any more explicit than that.

Face palm. A husband and a wife are one is explicit for one person or two people?

 

[RossRonin]

John 17:11 Holy Father, keep through your own name those whom you have given me, that they may be one, as we are.
John 17:22 And the glory which you gave me I have given to them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

So much for God and Jesus being "one" person! If Christians can be "one" just like God and Christ are "one" then the Trinity doctrine is just more theobabble, typical of theologians (intellectuals who prefer the ridiculously complex to the simplicity which is in Christ so they can justify the undeserved admiration and esteem they get from dumb peons like us).

It should be obvious that the word "one" talks about a spiritual unity that joins individuals, without erasing any personal identity or individuality.

Anybody can read the scriptures for themselves and understand that Jesus started off in the form of God (Psalm 33:6 calls him the breath or spirit of Jehovah's mouth), and was an integral part of God to the degree that John says he was with God, but also was God, in the same way you could say your mind is with you (unless you've lost it, from too much debating theology with closet agnostics and atheists in sheep's clothing) while in another sense your mind is you.

Paul calls Christ "the wisdom of God" and Solomon agrees in Proverbs 8:23 that Christ, the breath of Jehovah's mouth, "was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was."

But finally, on a certain day, the Spirit of God's Mouth became flesh, and that's when everything changed. "You are my Son; this day I have begotten you" describes the specific moment when a father produced a son, a virgin conceived, spirit became flesh, and Christ took on himself the nature of a servant and the form of a man--a man eternally subservient to his God.

So Jesus begins as God, but concludes as man.

 

[Muffled]

OK. WHO conceived God? Or what?

I believe God conceived God. I believe you are trying to say that no-one concevied the Spirit which is true but the person of Jesus was conceived with the Spirit of God as the residing Spirit. For most of us our identity is tied to the corporal but with Jesus the identity is tied to the Spirit.

 

[savagewind]

I believe God conceived God. I believe you are trying to say that no-one concevied the Spirit which is true but the person of Jesus was conceived with the Spirit of God as the residing Spirit.

With or by? I think we agree that Jesus was conceived by The Spirit of God.

For most of us our identity is tied to the corporal

I do not know.

but with Jesus the identity is tied to the Spirit.

Yes, I agree. Tied TO THE SPIRIT. Not IS The Spirit. See?

 

[Muffled]

3. No-one has seen God. (In the video this is #8 and my 2. is #9 and my 1 is #10)

I believe this is not evidence that Jesus is not God because no-one is claiming that the body of Jesus is God. The claim is that the Spirit of God resides in Jesus identifying Him as God.

 

[savagewind]

3. No-one has seen God. (In the video this is #8 and my 2. is #9 and my 1 is #10)

I believe this is not evidence that Jesus is not God because no-one is claiming that the body of Jesus is God. The claim is that the Spirit of God resides in Jesus identifying Him as God.

We agree!

.....but I think people DO claim that the body of the man is God.

 

[Muffled]

With or by? I think we agree that Jesus was conceived by The Spirit of God.

I do not know.

Yes, I agree. Tied TO THE SPIRIT. Not IS The Spirit. See?

I believe people look at a persons form listen to their voice and hear the words and all of that is isentified with the body and never the spirit. People don't identify with a spirit because it is not visible or easily discernable.

A persons identity tied to the Spirit of God means that the Spirit of God is in residence. I believe you did not understand what I was saying.

 

[Muffled]

We agree!

.....but I think people DO claim that the body of the man is God.

I believe that is because people want something tangible to call God and why idols of wood, gold and stone have been made but God calls us to be spirtually minded and not worldly minded.

 

[savagewind]

I believe people look at a persons form listen to their voice and hear the words and all of that is isentified with the body and never the spirit. People don't identify with a spirit because it is not visible or easily discernable.

I think this perception is well said and I agree.

A persons identity tied to the Spirit of God means that the Spirit of God is in residence. I believe you did not understand what I was saying.

As we are all suppose to welcome God's Spirit in us to dwell.

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