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Top Muslim Clerics in Canada Issue Fatwa Denouncing Terrorism

England my lionheart

Rockerjahili Rebel
Premium Member
The Muslim Brotherhood were allied with Nasser and got him into power who then turned on them and Al Banna,Qutb and many leading lights of the Brotherhood were imprisoned,during his 10 years in Prison Qutb wrote "Milestones" and ater his execution he became a Martyr along with Al Banna.
I agree that the Egyptian Government is undemocratic and seemingly corrupt but the Muslim Brotherhoods aim is for Egypt to become an Islamic state,if this were to happen how likely is it that there would be fair elections under them,after reading Milestones i think it could only be much worse.
 
First of all, let's assume our biggest concern is that there should be fair elections in Egypt. Let's consider the current President of Egypt, and the Muslim Brotherhood. Clearly, the one we should be most worried about is the one that has power now, that is actually preventing fair elections and has been doing this for many years, not the one that is out of power and MIGHT prevent fair elections in the future. And yet it seems to me most Westerners are far more worried about the unfair elections that MIGHT happen under the mysterious and scary Muslim Brotherhood, than the actual unfairness that has been going on for years, and continues, with our support! In a typical year we give the Egyptian government around $1 billion dollars, much of that money must go to weapons, economic or social programs, intelligence and propaganda programs that strengthen the Egyptian president and therefore prevent fair elections from happening.

Secondly, you say you are worried because their aim is to create an Islamic state. The reformists in Iran want to create an Islamic state too, they shout "God is great!" from the rooftops. Their entire motivation is to ensure that elections are fair and yet they clearly do not want to get rid of the Islamic character of their government. Much of the anti-Taliban movement in Afghanistan wanted to create an Islamic state and we in the West were overjoyed when they voted on the Afghan constitution which explicitly says they are an Islamic state. Clearly, not all Islamic states are the same, it is possible to have fair elections, and a democratic Islamic state is certainly better than a secular dictatorship.

It's ridiculous to say we must continue to have unfair elections, and it must continue to be illegal if you have "anti-government literature", because if we have fair elections and freedom of expression one party MIGHT get total control, and if that happens they MIGHT make the elections unfair again. You could use that reasoning to justify any dictatorship, there will always be opponents of any regime who would like to grab power for themselves. You could have used that reasoning to justify a dictatorship in the U.S. to prevent the Ku Klux Klan from winning too much influence in the Congress, which it did, or to prevent the KKK from completely hijacking democracy and preventing fair elections, which it did for decades.

I want to see the principles of the Brotherhood as they stand today, not what was written years ago, although I would also be interested in reading "Milestones".
 
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Sahar

Well-Known Member
I want to see the principles of the Brotherhood as they stand today, not what was written years ago, although I would also be interested in reading "Milestones".
If you want to know about their principles, you may want to read the martyr imam Hassan Al Banna's writings. Milestones, Mr Spinkles, doesn't represent the concepts of the Muslim Brotherhood. Sayyed Qutb went to the approach of clash and takfir of the Muslim society unlike Hassan Al Banna and his group.
 
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England my lionheart

Rockerjahili Rebel
Premium Member
First of all, let's assume our biggest concern is that there should be fair elections in Egypt. Let's consider the current President of Egypt, and the Muslim Brotherhood. Clearly, the one we should be most worried about is the one that has power now, that is actually preventing fair elections and has been doing this for many years, not the one that is out of power and MIGHT prevent fair elections in the future.

Mr Spinkles,i'm all for fairness,perhaps the Muslim Brotherhood will be fair and give the Coptic Christians a head start before they attack them.

And yet it seems to me most Westerners are far more worried about the unfair elections that MIGHT happen under the mysterious and scary Muslim Brotherhood, than the actual unfairness that has been going on for years, and continues, with our support! In a typical year we give the Egyptian government around $1 billion dollars, much of that money must go to weapons, economic or social programs, intelligence and propaganda programs that strengthen the Egyptian president and therefore prevent fair elections from happening.

I agree,it sucks and i really would like to see fair elections in Egypt but at the moment i fear it is the lesser of two evils.

Secondly, you say you are worried because their aim is to create an Islamic state. The reformists in Iran want to create an Islamic state too, they shout "God is great!" from the rooftops. Their entire motivation is to ensure that elections are fair and yet they clearly do not want to get rid of the Islamic character of their government. Much of the anti-Taliban movement in Afghanistan wanted to create an Islamic state and we in the West were overjoyed when they voted on the Afghan constitution which explicitly says they are an Islamic state. Clearly, not all Islamic states are the same, it is possible to have fair elections, and a democratic Islamic state is certainly better than a secular dictatorship.

This is different
Badee: We will continue on Qutb's path to reform.
Badee: Contrary to beliefs Qutb was a peaceful reformist.:facepalm:
Qutbs path is shared by Hamas and others,i think you know whats in Hamas's charter so i won't post it but if the MB ever get power effluent will certainly hit the Fan.

It's ridiculous to say we must continue to have unfair elections, and it must continue to be illegal if you have "anti-government literature", because if we have fair elections and freedom of expression one party MIGHT get total control, and if that happens they MIGHT make the elections unfair again. You could use that reasoning to justify any dictatorship, there will always be opponents of any regime who would like to grab power for themselves. You could have used that reasoning to justify a dictatorship in the U.S. to prevent the Ku Klux Klan from winning too much influence in the Congress, which it did, or to prevent the KKK from completely hijacking democracy and preventing fair elections, which it did for decades.

This isn't about making the elections unfair,i'm all for freedom of expression and it would be great if the people of Egypt could have such freedom and i sincerely hope that this happens,im surprised that the Presidentcy has lasted this long.

I want to see the principles of the Brotherhood as they stand today, not what was written years ago, although I would also be interested in reading "Milestones".

Milestones does stand for what the Brotherhood is today,i must say it was very enlightening to read and reminicent of Mein Campf.

 

England my lionheart

Rockerjahili Rebel
Premium Member
If you want to know about their principles, you may want to read the martyr imam Hassan Al Banna's writings. Milestones, Mr Spinkles, doesn't represent the concepts of the Muslim Brotherhood. Sayyed Qutb went to the approach of clash and takfir of the Muslim society unlike Hassan Al Banna and his group.

Thats interesting not4me,seems somebody forgot to tell Badee, Badee: We will continue on Qutb's path to reform.;)
 

Sahar

Well-Known Member
A very quick overview on the Muslim Brotherhood:
Al Jazeera English - Arab Unity - Rise of the Muslim Brotherhood

As the Brotherhood transformed itself into an effective political outfit, it also outlined its rejection of all manners of violence.
One of the recently adopted tenets states: "… We reiterate our rejection of any form of violence and coercion as well as all forms of coups which destroy the unity of any nation ... these methods would create a great crack in the wall of political stability."
The ideology of the Brotherhood also differs greatly with the one espoused by al-Qaeda. The Brotherhood members distance themselves from the acts and tactics of Al Qaeda.
Human rights are endorsed by the Brotherhood in its published documents.
On the women's rights issue they have shown a great deal of openness and enlisted women to run for parliamentary elections.


15 Principles for Agreement
the following 15 principles can be considered a compendium for the democratic principles which we call for. We have declared these principles in public and invited all the political parties and powers in Egypt to support them as a "National Charter". Also, it was included in my political program for the general elections which took place in Nov., 1995.
First: To confirm unequivocally that people are the source of all power so that it is not permissible for anyone individual, party, group, or institution to claim the right to authority, or to continue in power except with the consent of the people.
Second: Total commitment to, and the respect of, the principle of power exchange through free and fair general elections.
Third: To confirm the freedom of personal conviction (religious conviction).
Fourth: To confirm the freedom of establishing religious rites for all the known heavenly religions.
Fifth: To confirm the freedom of opinion and the right to publicize it, and to call, peacefully, to it, within the limitations of the moral values of society that are detailed in the first section of the constitution. An important consideration in ensuring the above is the freedom of owning and using the different mass media outlets (television, radio, video tapes and equipment, fax machines, newspapers, magazines, books and newsletters).
Sixth: To confirm the right of forming political parties and that no administrative body should have right of restricting or stopping the application of this right....
Ikhwanweb :: The Muslim Brotherhood Official English Website
 

England my lionheart

Rockerjahili Rebel
Premium Member
Thats great not4me but , Badee: We will continue on Qutb's path to reform.
Quote not4me: "Milestones, Mr Spinkles, doesn't represent the concepts of the Muslim Brotherhood. Sayyed Qutb went to the approach of clash and takfir of the Muslim society unlike Hassan Al Banna and his group".
 

maro

muslimah
In the long term to implement Sharia Government worldwide whether we nasty secularists like it or not

Who wants to implement the shariah worldwide ?!!..this is nonsense...it's the silliest and most foolish propaganda made up about muslims to promote Islamophobia . we want to implement the shariah in our countries ,if you don't mind...do you ?
 

kai

ragamuffin
Who wants to implement the shariah worldwide ?!!..this is nonsense...it's the silliest and most foolish propaganda made up about muslims to promote Islamophobia . we want to implement the shariah in our countries ,if you don't mind...do you ?

But doesn't the whole world belong to Allah? surely all Muslims would wish to see the whole world under Sharia---No.

Isn't it a goal of a Muslim to spread Islam throughout the world, thus saving people from eternal damnation. --no
 

England my lionheart

Rockerjahili Rebel
Premium Member
Who wants to implement the shariah worldwide ?!!..this is nonsense...it's the silliest and most foolish propaganda made up about muslims to promote Islamophobia . we want to implement the shariah in our countries ,if you don't mind...do you ?

Of course its none of my business if you want to implement Shariah in your Countries if its the genuine wish of the population,my fear there is what will happen to minority groups such as Coptic Christians and Bai Hai.
I don't think it promotes Islamophobia,i'm not saying all Muslims want this,indeed many Muslims are happy living in a Jahili society and would'nt want Shariah even if they could have it.
 

England my lionheart

Rockerjahili Rebel
Premium Member
Did you miss the part when he affirmed the group's rejection of violence?! :rolleyes:

No i did'nt but Qutbs path includes violence,its like the Nazi party coming to power in Germany again and saying we love the Jewish people and Mein Campf has been misunderstood,mind you Badee does say Qutb has been misunderstood and in reality Qutb just wanted to give the world a big Islamist hug :rolleyes:.
 

England my lionheart

Rockerjahili Rebel
Premium Member
That's the reason I said "acknowledge", not "denounce"....Because some Americans don't consider all what happened in Iraq, and Afghanistan as terrorism!!

I guess it comes down to what you consider as terrorism,Iraq and Afghanistan are considered as war here where the main aim is to destroy the enemy or make him leave the field and terrorism is considered as indiscriminate killing of anyone by a minority who cannot win the popular vote by any other means.
It is quite interesting that the majority of casualties to civilians are caused by Muslim insurgents but i guess they are just considered Takfir so its ok.
 

maro

muslimah
But doesn't the whole world belong to Allah? surely all Muslims would wish to see the whole world under Sharia---No.

Isn't it a goal of a Muslim to spread Islam throughout the world, thus saving people from eternal damnation. --no

No ,it's not the goal of muslims to spread Islam or implement the shariah.....It's the duty of muslims to let everyone know about Islam....to clear the fog covering it.....wether they accept it or not....implement the shariah or not....it's none of our business .

yes , i would like everyone to become a muslim because i believe my religion is the final divine revealation to humanity....however ,i have nothing to do but ' Al dawah'...to let people know ...that's it
 

maro

muslimah
Of course its none of my business if you want to implement Shariah in your Countries if its the genuine wish of the population,my fear there is what will happen to minority groups such as Coptic Christians and Bai Hai.

then educate yourself ,so that you might not have fears . The shariah was implemented all through the islamic history except for the last century ,and no religious minority ever enjoyed the rights and tolerance as those given by the shariah

you may wish to take a look : The Rights of Non-Muslims in Islam (part 1 of 13): An Islamic Basis - The Religion of Islam

I don't think it promotes Islamophobia,i'm not saying all Muslims want this,indeed many Muslims are happy living in a Jahili society and would'nt want Shariah even if they could have it.

you said that the final aim of the so called ' political islam ' is to implement the shariah worldwide which is nonsense...because the majority of muslims believe that Islam has everything to do with politics and still don't want to implement the shariah worldwide

You don't have to be a secuarist , and love to live in a *jahili socity * so as not to want to implement the shariah in a non muslim scoiety :rolleyes:
 
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maro

muslimah
That's the reason I said "acknowledge", not "denounce"....Because some Americans don't consider all what happened in Iraq, and Afghanistan as terrorism!!

Exactly
if we have a problem with 'denouncing'....thay have a problem with ' acknowledging' the facts

I guess their problem is more serious than ours !!
 
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