Torath Mosheh / Orthodox Judaism - The History of Terah and his family

[YoursTrue]

I don't belong to a sect or a group. If a non-Jew were to decide that they want to take on the Torah that was given and Mount Sinai, as Hashem gave it, and also connect himself / herself to the Jewish people the way it has been done for thousands of years by others who successfully did so, then in many Torah based / Orthodox Jewish communities there is a path for that.

Because Hashem gave a mitzvah to Torah based Jews, which we call Brith Milah for males, of course any potential convert to Torath Mosheh would have use Avraham ben-Terahh as his / her example to do so. Thus, of course before they complete the conversion process they would need to undergo a Brith Milah.

Because there is no requirement for the non-Jewish world to become Jewish, there is no requirement for a non-Jew to seek that out lness they compelled themselves to take up the path of Torah.

Would you say that reform Jews "take on the Torah" as you say in your phrase above? I won't even go into the rest of your claims there, just to ask what you believe if reform Jews in their group "take on the Torah"? What do you believe if you care to say, Ehav? I've got a lot of things to do today but was intrigued by this thread, so I'll look for your answer asap about groups that claim to be Jewish, especially reform Jews, if you think they "take on the Torah."

 

[Ehav4Ever]

Would you say that reform Jews "take on the Torah" as you say in your phrase above? I won't even go into the rest of your claims there, just to ask what you believe if reform Jews in their group "take on the Torah"? What do you believe if you care to say, Ehav? I've got a lot of things to do today but was intrigued by this thread, so I'll look for your answer asap about groups that claim to be Jewish, especially reform Jews, if you think they "take on the Torah."

I wouldn't know. You will have to ask someone who is reform what they do, why, or why not.

 

[YoursTrue]

I wouldn't know. You will have to ask someone who is reform what they do, why, or why not.

You should know, you seem to know about Judaism. There are many reform Jews who eat shrimp and pork. What about you?

 

[Ehav4Ever]

You should know, you seem to know about Judaism. There are many reform Jews who eat shrimp and pork. What about you?

I know about Torath Mosheh. I know about Yemenite, Sephardic, Mizrahi, Orthodox Ashkenazi, Hasidic, and Hereidi communities because I have been part of our around those communities. I am not really around any reforms. I think what they beleive / hold by can be found on their web-sites and such.

Also, didn't you tell me you have reform family members? If memory serves, I thought either your grandparents or parents were reform at some point when they wen to America.

 

[YoursTrue]

I know about Torath Mosheh. I know about Yemenite, Sephardic, Mizrahi, Orthodox Ashkenazi, Hasidic, and Hereidi communities because I have been part of our around those communities. I am not really around any reforms. I think what they beleive / hold by can be found on their web-sites and such.

Also, didn't you tell me you have reform family members? If memory serves, I thought either your grandparents or parents were reform at some point when they wenM to America.

That is true, I was born a Jew, family Jewish, family members were also Sephardic Jews, but mostly Ashkenazim. Virtually everyone ate non-kosher foods, kept non-kosher homes. We all celebrated the Passover. When I began believing the Bible I mentioned this to my uncle conducting the Seder, I'm sure you know what that is. He said he didn't believe the miracles, it was simply tradition that they kept the Passover. I had at least one Jewish friend in school who kept a kosher home. When my family visited Israel there were not too many Jews that cared how they ate on their pilgrimage. Only one family brought their own packaged food so as not to eat non-kosher possibility. (Treyf...) Hey, have a good one!

 

[YoursTrue]

I know about Torath Mosheh. I know about Yemenite, Sephardic, Mizrahi, Orthodox Ashkenazi, Hasidic, and Hereidi communities because I have been part of our around those communities. I am not really around any reforms. I think what they beleive / hold by can be found on their web-sites and such.

Also, didn't you tell me you have reform family members? If memory serves, I thought either your grandparents or parents were reform at some point when they wen to America.

Now that you mention it, were you born a Jew, like from a Jewish mother as so many have that tradition?

 

[Ehav4Ever]

That is true, I was born a Jew, family Jewish, family members were also Sephardic Jews, but mostly Ashkenazim. Virtually everyone ate non-kosher foods, kept non-kosher homes. We all celebrated the Passover. When I began believing the Bible I mentioned this to my uncle conducting the Seder, I'm sure you know what that is. He said he didn't believe the miracles, it was simply tradition that they kept the Passover. I had at least one Jewish friend in school who kept a kosher home. When my family visited Israel there were not too many Jews that cared how they ate on their pilgrimage. Only one family brought their own packaged food so as not to eat non-kosher possibility. (Treyf...) Hey, have a good one!

Okay. So, it sounds like you already know the anser to your question.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

Now that you mention it, were you born a Jew, like from a Jewish mother as so many have that tradition?

Both sides. Yes.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

Thank you kindly.

Regarding Beresheeth 2:23, are the translations correct when they say "The man said", meaning it was not God speaking but Adam.

Regarding Beresheeth 2:24, who is speaking here?

Okay. In order to understand the Torah you have to know the starting point.

 

[YoursTrue]

Both sides. Yes.

thank you for clarifying...

 

[Ehav4Ever]

Regarding Beresheeth 2:24, who is speaking here?

2:24 is again Hashem's commentary of the situation. It is like saying, the instructions of Hashem are throughout the text in what is described, how it is presented, and the context with which statements are made. This is why some people make the mistake of thinking that the claim is that Moses wrote the Torah, and thus he couldn't because there are different voices found in the text. The Torath Mosheh / Orthodox Jewish position for thousands of years has always been, "Of course there are different voices in the text. Hashem is not a human. Thus, Hashem placed the different voices in the text by design, when He [Hashem] dictated the text to Mosheh. Thus, everyone can find a voice that fits them in the text." It is also one of the reasons that we say that there are 70 faces to the Torah. Again, that was by Hashem's design from the start.

Note: I am using the statement "Hashem's commentary" as a metaphor of how to look what the purpose of the text is for the Torah based Jewish people.

 

[YoursTrue]

Okay. In order to understand the Torah you have to know the starting point.

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You wrote that God dictated the spacing gaps to Moses? (I use English when referring to the holy scriptures in general.) What spacing gaps are you referring to, please?
P.S. I usually read the holy scriptures in English, I can read a very little bit in Hebrew, I can read somewhat in French, but mainly English. I do know, however, that the chapters and verse numbers were not put in the early texts, but rather centuries later.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

You wrote that God dictated the spacing gaps to Moses? (I use English when referring to the holy scriptures in general.) What spacing gaps are you referring to, please?

These:

 

[GoodAttention]

2:24 is again Hashem's commentary of the situation. It is like saying, the instructions of Hashem are throughout the text in what is described, how it is presented, and the context with which statements are made. This is why some people make the mistake of thinking that the claim is that Moses wrote the Torah, and thus he couldn't because there are different voices found in the text. The Torath Mosheh / Orthodox Jewish position for thousands of years has always been, "Of course there are different voices in the text. Hashem is not a human. Thus, Hashem placed the different voices in the text by design, when He [Hashem] dictated the text to Mosheh. Thus, everyone can find a voice that fits them in the text." It is also one of the reasons that we say that there are 70 faces to the Torah. Again, that was by Hashem's design from the start.

Note: I am using the statement "Hashem's commentary" as a metaphor of how to look what the purpose of the text is for the Torah based Jewish people.

I understand thank you for that.

Quick question, was the oral or written torah received first?

 

[Ehav4Ever]

I understand thank you for that.

Quick question, was the oral or written torah received first?

The oral Torah from Hashem and Mosheh, came before the written Torah. After Mosheh transcribed what Hashem dicated to him additional oral instruction was given, before Mosheh passed away.

 

[GoodAttention]

The oral Torah from Hashem and Mosheh, came before the written Torah. After Mosheh transcribed what Hashem dicated to him additional oral instruction was given, before Mosheh passed away.

Is it then considered that the written Torah could contain information that was not passed down orally?
For example, Mosheh transcribing scripture to be read by non-Jews?

I already hold this to be true regardless.

 

[YoursTrue]

These:

View attachment 94726

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Did Moses use printing presses and the type of Hebrew you pictured above? Looks like print, not handwritten. What original manuscripts are available for you to look at to see the spaces? I'm beginning to think you should study the scriptures more and ask God Almighty for help. But that's me, I'm not telling you what to do, just a little suggestion.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

Did Moses use printing presses and the type of Hebrew you pictured above? Looks like print, not handwritten. What original manuscripts are available for you to look at to see the spaces? I'm beginning to think you should study the scriptures more and ask God Almighty for help. But that's me, I'm not telling you what to do, just a little suggestion.

Torah scrolls for thousands of years have been written by hand by Torah based Jewish men. A Torah scroll is made of kosher animal hide, this is a requirement.

It is only kosher if it was written by a Torah based Jewish man by hand. If someone were to photo copy or have a machine / computer write a Torah scroll it could be used for personal use like Humash, but not for use in a synagogue. Jewish Soferim (scribes) train very hard to perfectly copy a Torah from kosher Torah and their skills are very well know throughout the century. Transmitting the words of Hashem is of the utmost importance to them. Here are a few examples:

 

[Ehav4Ever]

Is it then considered that the written Torah could contain information that was not passed down orally?
For example, Mosheh transcribing scripture to be read by non-Jews?

I already hold this to be true regardless.

No. There is nothing in the written text that wasn't given orally to the Jewish people. There are no, if you will, hidden messages in the written text. If there were the vast majority of non-Jews woudl never know it was there because most non-Jews don't know Hebrew. Let alone reading a Torah scroll.

Even reading the written Torah requires an oral Torah. The written Torah does not include vowel marks or punciation marks. Thus, the only way to read it is to have been orally taught how to.

Here is an example I did a while back to explain this point.

 

[GoodAttention]

No. There is nothing in the written text that wasn't given orally to the Jewish people. There are no, if you will, hidden messages in the written text. If there were the vast majority of non-Jews woudl never know it was there because most non-Jews don't know Hebrew. Let alone reading a Torah scroll.

Even reading the written Torah requires an oral Torah. The written Torah does not include vowel marks or punciation marks. Thus, the only way to read it is to have been orally taught how to.

Here is an example I did a while back to explain this point.

Side question. The Hebrew scriptures were allowed to be translated into Koine Greek, which I would conclude was not against any law as such?