Transgenderism

[Ella S.]

This is my experience and where you guys lose me. You deny the subjective ability to dis-identify and identify with experiences and people. I guess it becomes a free-will issue in which you guys are stripping transgender people of agency and free-will. That is not empowering but the opposite in my view.

I explicitly avoided using the term "gender identity" because I think it's misleading. You're the one who brought up identity. I was talking about gender.

 

[Treasure Hunter]

Whether you intended it that way or not this just comes across as a sugar coated version of 'have you tried just not being depressed/autustic/gay/trans/etc?'

So then I will clarify that I realize and appreciate how imposing certain imposed identities are.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Transformation is the ability to dis-identify with one identity and identify with another. It is essential in the quest for fulfillment in my experience.

It feels highly demoralizing and suffocating to deny people this ability.

Can you rephrase that?

 

[Treasure Hunter]

I explicitly avoided using the term "gender identity" because I think it's misleading. You're the one who brought up identity. I was talking about gender.

I read this as simply restating your position of denying the subjective.

 

[Treasure Hunter]

Can you rephrase that?

I will ask: is transformation possible in your worldview with no agency or free-will?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I will ask: is transformation possible in your worldview with no agency or free-will?

Yes. If you mean I could have been more as a male in sexual sense, but become a trans women and thus a woman without free will, then yes.
And yes, in my view you can have agency and no free will.

 

[Colt]

Sounds like you're referring to transvestite males (autogynephiles), who decide to transition later on in life and are usually hetero males. Yeah, there's a lot of those. Not all of them are older, either. Some are younger. To be honest, a lot of younger guys are getting sucked into it because of sissy porn and trans porn, and they develop an obsession with it. Some are chasers with a fetish for trans women and then they transition to be "lesbians" with other fetishists like themselves. My last boyfriend is one of those types, pretending he's trans (among other things) when he's really a self-hating gay man with a ton of fetishes, who became obsessed with tranny porn when he was young. There's a lot of weird **** going on.

I think you are on to something. Porn and sex addicts get tired of traditional porn and need more twisted to get off! That might be the next level of truth to discuss what's happening in society. I'm in a 12 step program for substance addiction and have become aware of the increase in cross addicted sex addicts going to SLAA.

 

[Treasure Hunter]

Yes. If you mean I could have been more as a male in sexual sense, but become a trans women and thus a woman without free will, then yes.
And yes, in my view you can have agency and no free will.

Well if you affirm agency, then I don’t consider us to have different positions because I would assume we are simply defining free-will differently.

Then, I don’t see how you can affirm agency but then deny the agency to be able to dis-identify and identify.

 

[Ella S.]

I read this as simply restating your position of denying the subjective.

Whether one experiences gender dysphoria or not is objectively measurable and can be diagnosed fairly reliably.

Whether one decides to identify with their gender or not is a different and completely unrelated question.

It's not a denial of the subjective; it's a recognition that the subjective is irrelevant to the topic.

ETA: You can no more change your gender through force of will than you can cure yourself of autism or Parkinson's, and for similar reasons. The idea that you can was discredited with the pseudoscience of "conversion therapy."

 

[Treasure Hunter]

Whether one experiences gender dysphoria or not is objectively measurable and can be diagnosed fairly reliably.

Whether one decides to identify with their gender or not is a different and completely unrelated question.

It's not a denial of the subjective; it's a recognition that the subjective is irrelevant to the topic.

The ability to identify with one gender or another is irrelevant to the idea that “gender isn’t subjective”?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Well if you affirm agency, then I don’t consider us to have different positions because I would assume we are simply defining free-will differently.

Then, I don’t see how you can affirm agency but then deny the agency to be able to dis-identify and identify.

I think I misunderstood you.
Can you explain it with the words sex and gender, please.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I think you are on to something. Porn and sex addicts get tired of traditional porn and need more twisted to get off! That might be the next level of truth to discuss what's happening in society. I'm in a 12 step program for substance addiction and have become aware of the increase in cross addicted sex addicts going to SLAA.

It's been a known phenomenon for decades that there's male transvestites and some of them decide to transition for primarily sexual reasons. They don't have a cross-sex perception of themselves from a young age and everything is about sex and looking like a hooker to them. They rarely pass or blend in as women because they're not - they're men and have a clear male psychology. They're usually misogynists, as well. Theres been an explosion of those people lately and it's usually them making "actual trans" people (transsexuals) look bad because they're so loud.

 

[Ella S.]

The ability to identify with one gender or another is irrelevant to the idea that “gender isn’t subjective”?

This is such a stupid line of questioning lol

 

[Treasure Hunter]

I think I misunderstood you.
Can you explain it with the words sex and gender, please.

Sex is generally understood as the biological imposition of gender. However, one can later choose (agency) to either dis-identify or identify with their sex based gender.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Sex is generally understood as the biological imposition of gender. However, one can later choose (agency) to either dis-identify or identify with their sex based gender.

So there are a difference between sex and gender in some cases in some humans?

 

[Estro Felino]

Sounds like you're referring to transvestite males (autogynephiles), who decide to transition later on in life and are usually hetero males. Yeah, there's a lot of those. Not all of them are older, either. Some are younger. To be honest, a lot of younger guys are getting sucked into it because of sissy porn and trans porn, and they develop an obsession with it. Some are chasers with a fetish for trans women and then they transition to be "lesbians" with other fetishists like themselves. My last boyfriend is one of those types, pretending he's trans (among other things) when he's really a self-hating gay man with a ton of fetishes, who became obsessed with tranny porn when he was young. There's a lot of weird **** going on.

Thanks for your insightful analysis, really.
And thanks for your honesty.
As you know, I am a very blunt and ouspoken person. I have always been like that, I call things by their name. Even if I shock people, I don't care.

It seems to me that the number of the LGBT persons who are into ciswomen is overwhelming, in the US.

It shocks me because in my country it's the exact opposite. There are men who are obsessed with transwomen because they still have male genitalia. And they will not date transwomen who have had bottom surgery...
Not to mention the number of bisexual men...who is rising exponentially.

 

[Treasure Hunter]

This is such a stupid line of questioning lol

I’m here in good faith.

 

[Treasure Hunter]

So there are a difference between sex and gender in some cases in some humans?

My sense is that you think that you are asking an objective question here. I don’t believe that there is some platonic, objective realm that we derive our “true” gender identity from.

 

[Treasure Hunter]

My sense is that you think that you are asking an objective question here. I don’t believe that there is some platonic, objective realm that we derive our “true” gender identity from.

Is this what you guys believe? That you have a “true” gender identity derived from an objective realm?

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

In light of the scriptures I think it’s clear that “transgenderism” is a satanic attack upon God’s creation of male and female, human personhood, biological reality, and truth. A phenomenon especially dangerous to women and children. I’m interested in perspectives of other Christians.


“And because of the subjectivity of gender identity, Hasson said the transgender movement poses a dire threat to women in particular.

“Gender identity is a feeling,” she explained. “It’s completely subjective — can’t test for it, can’t prove it, it’s got to be declared. “



“There's decades of literature showing overwhelming probability in a gender dysphoric minor of underlying health problems of adverse childhood experiences, bad family dynamics and a way over-representation of autism spectrum dysphoria, and that these all predate the gender dysphoria,” Van Mol explained.

According to recent data, the number of minors in America receiving a diagnosis of gender dysphoria tripled from 2017 to 2021, with more than 42,000 receiving the diagnosis in 2021. On the social media platform TikTok, which is especially popular among younger people, the hashtag “trans” has logged 50.2 billion views, nearly doubling within the space of a year.”

“So instead of saying people should seek the truth, now people say you should ‘speak your truth,” he explained. “So if words have no relation to reality, then words like ‘male’ and ‘female’ don’t matter anymore.””

“Lahl echoed that sentiment, stating her conviction — and perhaps summing up the battle itself — that transgenderism isn’t simply a political or cultural attack but one that is satanic in its origins.

“I don't believe in transgenderism,” she said. “I think that’s a lie from the devil.””

Excepts from:

'Unmasking Gender Ideology' panel warns 'women are going to lose' rights if trans ideologues win

What is a human being And what does it mean to be a human being Those were the central questions considered at The Christian Post s conference, Unmasking Gender Ideology Protecting Children,

www.christianpost.com

Why are you concerned about someone else's sexual orientation? I'm sure you'll think my questions are ridiculous, but bear with me. Why don't you (and other Christians) mind your own business and stop obsessing about the lives of LGBTQ+ people? If you and other Christians who piously judge LGBTQ+ people focused more on the speck in your own eye, none of you would have time to point out the speck in the eyes of the people you all like to judge.

You might not realize it, but there are more pressing issues in the world for Christians to be concerned about than obsessing over other people's sexual orientation. As the saying goes, "Those who live in glass houses should not throw stones." In other words, Christians should mind their own business and stop poking their noses where they don't belong, as well as refrain from imposing their Christian beliefs on others. It's no surprise, after reading your OP, that so many nonbelievers outright reject Christianity, publicly berate Christians, and even consider most Christians to be hypocrites and religious bigots.