Transgenderism

[syo]

People like surgeries.

 

[Father Heathen]

People like surgeries.

People like stupid posts.

 

[syo]

People like stupid posts.

And surgeon's knives.

 

[Ella S.]

There are eunuchs in the Bible, but I guess they were used as attendants to queens in prior religions.

That's a great counter-point.

While you could become a eunuch for a variety of religious reasons, there were historical eunuchs that were likely transgender. They just didn't have the cultural language for it back then that we do now.

 

[Father Heathen]

And surgeon's knives.

Yep, people causally have penectomies done on a whim, just for ****s and giggles.

 

[Treasure Hunter]

.

That's a great counter-point.

While you could become a eunuch for a variety of religious reasons, there were historical eunuchs that were likely transgender. They just didn't have the cultural language for it back then that we do now.

Or the social environment to accommodate it. Let’s not pretend that there isn’t a social influence at play here.

 

[Ella S.]

I touched on this in another thread, but I cannot take this claim — the idea that gender is not subjective — seriously.

Gender is not this unique identity that doesn’t follow the pattern of other identities, in which we can, on a subjective level, dis-identify or identify. Sure, identities are imposed on us: biologically, socially, etc, but we can then either dis-identify or identify (subjectively) with those imposed identities. At a subjective level, we are dis-identifying and identifying with people and experiences all the time.

I suspect this is a defense response to protect against detransitioners by writing them off as not “true” or “actual” transgender persons, or by further positioning transgender people as victimized and oppressed (by their imposed transgender identity) in order to garner more support. Either way, undermining the situation with un-truths does nobody good in the long run.

Or the social environment to accommodate it. Let’s not pretend that there isn’t a social influence at play here.

Deny science all you want, I don't care. The science stands. Cope.

 

[Father Heathen]

That's a great counter-point.

While you could become a eunuch for a variety of religious reasons, there were historical eunuchs that were likely transgender. They just didn't have the cultural language for it back then that we do now.

Did eunuchs even have a choice in the matter?

 

[syo]

Yep, people causally have penectomies done on a whim, just for ****s and giggles.

I never understood why people want operations. It's crazy.

 

[Treasure Hunter]

Deny science all you want, I don't care. The science stands. Cope.

I’m not denying the biological influence. I said biology imposes identities onto us. You are choosing to stop there and deny the subjective element in which we can then choose to dis-identify or identify with these imposed identities.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I’m not denying the biological influence. I said biology imposes identities onto us. You are choosing to stop there and deny the subjective element in which we can then choose to dis-identify or identify with these imposed identities.

Well, that is not science. That is your ideology.

 

[Father Heathen]

I never understood why people want operations. It's crazy.

I was being sarcastic.
People want surgeries to correct medical conditions. Easy enough to understand, right?

 

[Treasure Hunter]

Well, that is not science. That is your ideology.

This is my experience and where you guys lose me. You deny the subjective ability to dis-identify and identify with experiences and people. I guess it becomes a free-will issue in which you guys are stripping transgender people of agency and free-will. That is not empowering but the opposite in my view.

 

[syo]

I was being sarcastic.
People want surgeries to correct medical conditions. Easy enough to understand, right?

I am not touching surgeon's knives.

 

[Father Heathen]

I am not touching surgeon's knives.

You shouldn't be anyway if you're not a surgeon.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

This is my experience and where you guys lose me. You deny the subjective ability to dis-identify and identify with experiences and people. I guess it becomes a free-will issue in which you guys are stripping transgender people of agency and free-will. That is not empowering but the opposite in my view.

Well, I accept your view if you can show that we have free will.
But that is the problem. We don't, apparently.

Because if that was the case you could totally freely choose your gender. Nothing stops you, you just change your mind. Do that and actually do that for, say a year.

 

[Ella S.]

Did eunuchs even have a choice in the matter?

In the Biblical context, "eunuch" was sometimes used in the place of Aramaic words for chamberlain, without any context of gender or even castration. In the time of the New Testament texts, the answer was "yes and no."

Some eunuchs were servants or criminals who were castrated without their consent. Others voluntarily underwent the process, usually in a religious context. Ancient Rome could be fairly strict about assigned gender roles, and eunuchs often acted as a sort of third gender in those contexts, so you could contextualize a priest who voluntarily undergoes castration to become a eunuch as transgender in that sense.

If I was a trans woman during that age, I would probably seek to become a eunuch, but I find it doubtful that all eunuchs at that time had any sort of gender dysphoria or gender euphoria associated with the transition. So the majority of them were probably not transgender. There are a few who probably were, though.

There was a thread on this subject awhile ago that talks about some of this in better detail:

'Transgender' lives in medieval Christendom

In book 10 chapter 15 of his sixth century Historia Francorum (History of the Franks) - which chronicles the emergence of the Merovingian kingdom of Francia from the collapse of the Western Roman Empire - St. Gregory of Tours narrates his first-hand account of a rebellion staged by two Frankish...

www.religiousforums.com

 

[ADigitalArtist]

This is my experience and where you guys lose me. You deny the subjective ability to dis-identify and identify with experiences and people. I guess it becomes a free-will issue in which you guys are stripping transgender people of agency and free-will. That is not empowering but the opposite in my view.

Whether you intended it that way or not this just comes across as a sugar coated version of 'have you tried just not being depressed/autustic/gay/trans/etc?'

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

What shocks me is that in the United States so many heterosexual cisgender people become trans just like that.
This is highly suspicious.
I think that there is a culture that indoctrinates heterosexual cisgender people.

Sounds like you're referring to transvestite males (autogynephiles), who decide to transition later on in life and are usually hetero males. Yeah, there's a lot of those. Not all of them are older, either. Some are younger. To be honest, a lot of younger guys are getting sucked into it because of sissy porn and trans porn, and they develop an obsession with it. Some are chasers with a fetish for trans women and then they transition to be "lesbians" with other fetishists like themselves. My last boyfriend is one of those types, pretending he's trans (among other things) when he's really a self-hating gay man with a ton of fetishes, who became obsessed with tranny porn when he was young. There's a lot of weird **** going on.

 

[Treasure Hunter]

Well, I accept your view if you can show that we have free will.
But that is the problem. We don't, apparently.

Because if that was the case you could totally freely choose your gender. Nothing stop you, you just change your mind. Do that and actually do that for, say a year.

Transformation is the ability to dis-identify with one identity and identify with another. It is essential in the quest for fulfillment in my experience.

It feels highly demoralizing and suffocating to deny people this ability.