Trinity - Fact or Fiction?

[JayHawes]

It's normal. All of those who preach christianity will tell you that once you have faith in Christ and his love, you will be saved then full stop. The preachers went the easy way to get more followers of Christ without knowing what they supposed to believe in as a real solid doctrine, and at the end what you have got is just the "So Called" Christians as you named them. What You Preach Is What You Get! simply put.

At the end, i don't think those who put their trust on their savior who don't require from them any work or certain belief to adhere to "according to the preachers" will be pleased with you saying that they are not real Christians, and i know that alot of Christians will jump over you in here telling you that you don't have the right to say who is a real Christian and who isn't.

Instead of focusing totally on Christians why not turn the light on MOslems. Why all the radical actions in the Middle east? Moslems commit suicide bombings, and and shoot rockets into Israel to cuase turmoil. Moslems ignore the world as they aquire nuclear technology, Moslems cuase unrest in their own nations, and Moslems kill each other daily in Iraq, and Afghanistan. People, there are bad Moslems out there who preach a different message than what most Moslem consider true. Must we then call the whole of Islam false? I think not. There are bad adherents in all religions, condemning the religion does nothing. However not one of us has ran into all of the (made up nummber of) millions of fake or "so called" Christians, or the Radical Moslems. We simply make up a number in our head...i'm sure we could do the same with every other faith on earth...People will be people, and some are just fake...that doesn't make their abuse of a message fake though. It isn't the preacher's fault it is the persons'.

Also as a Preacher i must tell you that all one has to do to be saved is to accept Jesus. However I do not preach that you just stop there. But Jesus said a tree is known by the fruit it bares. If someone is really saved they will bare the fruit of being a Christian, if they are not they wont bare good fruit (works). Those works however do not save us, they just show that we are saved.

 

[Angel A]

"Also as a Preacher i must tell you that all one has to do to be saved is to accept Jesus. However I do not preach that you just stop there. But Jesus said a tree is known by the fruit it bares. If someone is really saved they will bare the fruit of being a Christian, if they are not they wont bare good fruit (works). Those works however do not save us, they just show that we are saved.[/quote]

My point explained better than I could. :rainbow1:

However I want to say to your comment about muslims:
The ones who cause terror and murder are no more muslim than the Nazi's were christian. Just because someone is Arab and shout Allah does not make them true muslims.

 

[JayHawes]

"My point explained better than I could. :rainbow1:

However I want to say to your comment about muslims:
The ones who cause terror and murder are no more muslim than the Nazi's were christian. Just because someone is Arab and shout Allah does not make them true muslims.

Thanks for adding. I meant to make that clear but seem to have left it out. My point was that not all Christians are Christians just as all Moslems are not Moslem, and as all BUddhist are not practicing Buddhist. INstead some chill out....and live their life...:beach:

 

[Angel A]

Most christians could benefit from visiting a mosque to see what it means to humble themselves before God. Coming from a dedicated Christian it might sound strange however to prostrate in prayer is THE most humbling thing a person can do. That could show many of us christians that if an entire group of worshipers can bow dow 5 times a day to humble themselves before God so too should we do acts that humble ourselves. But this is another subject....

 

[Dirty Penguin]

I would like to add that this debate has taken a turn from the OP. Can we get back on subject?

Just to let you ALL know, ALL religious denomination have some sort of fundamental thinking.It should be noted tha not all in those denominations share the thinking of their brethren.

 

[neves]

You're the first Muslim i've heard to say you beleive Jesus was the Messiah, may others laughed at me when i said such. Usually you'all just say he was a great prophet and deny that he was the messiah...or rather that he died on the cross.. Jews were the first Christians, all of the Apostles were Jews , a majority of the followers of the Way of Jesus were Jews before the Apostle Paul came along and preached unto the Gentiles. Do Christians really make him any higher than he really is? He is the Messiah, meaning that he was and is the way to salvation, as prophesied, of course Moslems will deny this since many dont believe Christ died on the Cross...Jesus is the Son of God, something eles which i think you refer to that we Christians give unto Jesus, why though? Becuase his Apostles knew him as such:

Mt 16:16And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ ( the messiah), the Son of the living God.

These are the words of the Apostle Peter as he responded to the Question Christ preposed, "Whom do you say that I am?"

Jesus said:"Blessed art thou, for God the father in Heaven, has revealed this unto you." (17)


I realise Moslems believe to a degree about Jesus and what he came to do, but they deny major portions of his life and the Gospels...

Jesus was the Messiah... and he still is... he still has some unfinished business before he dies...

 

[Truth_Faith13]

Instead of focusing totally on Christians why not turn the light on MOslems. Why all the radical actions in the Middle east? Moslems commit suicide bombings, and and shoot rockets into Israel to cuase turmoil. Moslems ignore the world as they aquire nuclear technology, Moslems cuase unrest in their own nations, and Moslems kill each other daily in Iraq, and Afghanistan. People, there are bad Moslems out there who preach a different message than what most Moslem consider true. Must we then call the whole of Islam false? I think not. There are bad adherents in all religions, condemning the religion does nothing. However not one of us has ran into all of the (made up nummber of) millions of fake or "so called" Christians, or the Radical Moslems. We simply make up a number in our head...i'm sure we could do the same with every other faith on earth...People will be people, and some are just fake...that doesn't make their abuse of a message fake though. It isn't the preacher's fault it is the persons'.

Also as a Preacher i must tell you that all one has to do to be saved is to accept Jesus. However I do not preach that you just stop there. But Jesus said a tree is known by the fruit it bares. If someone is really saved they will bare the fruit of being a Christian, if they are not they wont bare good fruit (works). Those works however do not save us, they just show that we are saved.

When you say Moslems do you mean Muslims?

 

[UnityNow101]

I believe that all Muslims believe Jesus to be the Jewish Messiah, although I could be wrong...Messiah simply means "annointed one", and Muslims would believe Him to be annointed with the Word of God...Entrusted with a message from Allah to the Jewish people.

 

[Wandered Off]

Yes it includes a messenger. Allah does not need a messenger nor anything else. The messengers were for the benefit of humankind, not for Allah's benefit.

I think the supposed incarnation as a "son" is often interpreted as solely for the benefit of humankind as well, so please help me understand the distinction.

 

[Truth_Faith13]

Just so you all know - I have added a poll as this thread has taken off and I have lost track of who believes in what.

 

[PHOTOTAKER]

i thank this is very funny Celsus, who was an anti-christian writer around 160-200 a.d., wrote the same things that are in the modern christian creeds. "God has no emotion" "he cannot be heard" "god is unknowable" "god dose not have a body" on and on. whats was anti christian then is christian today, a teacher in theoalagy said commiting on some of this said, "we as christians didn't get it right then but now we get it..." its funny really, to thank that peter, paul and others that knew christ or saw him got it wrong... its quit funny...

 

[PHOTOTAKER]

I believe that all Muslims believe Jesus to be the Jewish Messiah, although I could be wrong...Messiah simply means "annointed one", and Muslims would believe Him to be annointed with the Word of God...Entrusted with a message from Allah to the Jewish people.

messiah is christ in greek... just a cool little fact... the jews back then were only looking for God to deliver them from the romen impire so when the messiah came there were few people that saw Jesus of nazerath as Jesus the messiah or Jesus the christ which was the true suffering servant from Isa 53...

 

[Blindinglight]

Well, since Jesus was not a god, or son of a god, then the Trinity is fiction.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

The trinity is (fact) to the trinitarians ONLY....Only those who believe it..believe it to be fact.

Over in the forum "is Jesus God in the flesh" a trinitarian I'am in a debate with had this to say to boaster his position...

"God can send God, command God, pray to God, talk to God. Since He can do all these things he is no less God for doing them."

To me it makes NO sense whatsoever but to each his own.....

 

[JayHawes]

I believe that all Muslims believe Jesus to be the Jewish Messiah, although I could be wrong...Messiah simply means "annointed one", and Muslims would believe Him to be annointed with the Word of God...Entrusted with a message from Allah to the Jewish people.

The Messiah as known by the Jews for hundreds and thousands of years would also be the savior, the one who would redeem mankind from their sins:

Joh 4:25 -The woman saith to him, I know that Messiah cometh, who is called Christ; when he is come, he will tell us all things.Joh 4:26Jesus saith to her, I that speak to thee am he.

Mt 18:11 -Jesus "...is come to save that which was lost"

Joh 10:7 -Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.

Joh 10:8 -All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.

Joh 10:9 -I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

 

[JayHawes]

The Father is God. Jesus prayed to the Father. Jesus is called by the same title as God. They being two are one in the Spirit, and their essence. Jesus did not pray to himself, he prayed to a different being, the one who commanded him, giving him his mission.

 

[Truth_Faith13]

The Father is God. Jesus prayed to the Father. Jesus is called by the same title as God. They being two are one in the Spirit, and their essence. Jesus did not pray to himself, he prayed to a different being, the one who commanded him, giving him his mission.

But your a trinitarian?

 

[djackson]

Consider this. Accepting that God is/was real, also Jesus. Could it be possible that God the Father was inhabited by a being/energy/spirit that was passed on to his "son", unifying them into one being by memory/experience? In other words, when the god of the Old Testament 'changed' into the god of the New Testament, perhaps that switch was by the transfer of the Holy Ghost from one to the other.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

The Father is God. Jesus prayed to the Father. Jesus is called by the same title as God. They being two are one in the Spirit, and their essence. Jesus did not pray to himself, he prayed to a different being, the one who commanded him, giving him his mission.

Jay if you are a trinitarian then you will be the first that I have encountered to say this. I believe Jesus meant (oneness)...not (one in the same).. It will be interesting to see if the other trinitarians agree with your position. If they don't...then don't worry..I got love for you...

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Consider this. Accepting that God is/was real, also Jesus. Could it be possible that God the Father was inhabited by a being/energy/spirit that was passed on to his "son", unifying them into one being by memory/experience? In other words, when the god of the Old Testament 'changed' into the god of the New Testament, perhaps that switch was by the transfer of the Holy Ghost from one to the other.

I hear what you're saying but consider these....

Matthew: 17:5
While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.

Mark 1:11
And there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Luke 3:22
And the Holy Spirit descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.

John
17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

John 6:38"For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but
the will of Him who sent Me.

Although Jesus and God share a oneness they are not one in the same.