Trinity: True or False?

[firedragon]

I believe you don't have a clue what you are talking about. All you seem to be able to say is "no."

You can go feel as good as you can by insulting without engaging, but again, you said : "I believe then that you are referring to the Paraclete", the answer is: "No", because "I was not referring to Parakletos".

Hope you understand.

 

[TrueBeliever37]

I believe I have never found someone who could prove himself correct when they disbelieve in the Trinity. I have offered many proofs over the years. I had one thread that went over 150 pages and all one of my opponents could do was make false statements and never prove them.

You said you have offered many proofs over the years. Would you prove your statement? Please show one scripture (Just one little scripture) that says there is a triune God, or mentions a trinity, or that there are 3 persons in the Godhead.

 

[Soapy]

I believe not. He did not. It would be illogical to say that he did, simply because He called himself a man which He was also

So you think that ‘God’ is a man?

I believe all of that is true for the fact that He is God also and it does not negate His statement.

Yes it does … God and man do not mix. One is Spirit and the other is Flesh.

I believe you can but you can't say it in context of who you are. That context is the one Jesus is using and the context also contains the "I Am" statement as well.

‘I am’ is just stating a current situation. It does not make a claim to be God otherwise there’s a whole heap (everyone, in fact) would be claiming to be God as everyone has at sometime or other said, ‘I Am….’

I believe you have not logically proven that and I consider it blasphemy.

I believe I have no trouble with that. I can't wash dishes without my right and left hand but my right hand and left hand are not separate entities.

God does not have physical right or left hand… and besides where in scriptures does God mention a left hand? ‘Right Hand’ is a metaphor for ‘enlisted power’.

A king enlists his best warrior as his right hand man: that warrior is ‘the kings right hand’.

And that is why Jesus is seated at the right hand of God… but you say Jesus IS GOD … yet Jesus is seated next to whom you say he is… what kind of logical sense does trinity employ?

One cannot BE GOD and also SAT NEXT TO GOD!

Explain that please!!

Jesus PRAYS TO GOD. But you say Jesus IS GOD!

Explain that please!!

GOD raised up Jesus Christ from the dead. But you say Jesus IS GOD!

Explain that please!!

GOD GRANTED power and life and angels and kingship TO Jesus… yet you say Jesus IS GOD - whom granted Jesus these things!

Explain that please!!

 

[JerryMyers]

I believe I already gave the verses in post #113.[

Are you kidding me ?? Those verses you quoted in your Post #113 are your ‘proofs’ that Jesus was speaking of trinity ??

Here are the verses you quoted in your post #113.

Father:
Matt 5:16 In the same way, let your light shine before others, so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven.
Son:
Luke 22:70 So they all said, “Are you the Son of God, then?” And he said to them, “You say that I am.”
Paraclete:
John 14:20 In that day you will know that I am in my Father, and you in me, and I in you.

Where in Matthew 5:16 did Jesus say or even imply he’s the Father or giving glory to the Father in heaven is the same as giving glory to him - if that’s what you are trying to suggest.

In Luke 22:70, Jesus is DENYING he is God the Son !! Do you think Jesus would say “You said that I am” if he truly believes he’s God the Son ?? The only reason Jesus responded as such was that he was so fed up with the Jews who kept insisting that he had claimed he was God/God the Son (because they wanted to accuse him of blasphemy) that he responded with, “You said that I am”. In other words, Jesus is saying “I NEVER said or claimed I am God/God the Son, YOU said that I am - NOT me who said that YOU said that”.

In John 14:20, if saying “I am in the Father” makes Jesus the Father, then, Jesus in saying “you in me and I in you” will make all his disciples him (“you in me”) and him his disciples (“I in you”) !!

Those three verses are NOT even referring to trinity, let alone to claim Jesus was referring to a triune God!! Your mind is REALLY muddled up, Muffled !

 

[Muffled]

But if Jesus is not God, why would God tell you that he is?..... Interesting....

I believe it is obvious that Jesus is God since God says so.

 

[Muffled]

So you think that ‘God’ is a man?

Yes it does … God and man do not mix. One is Spirit and the other is Flesh.

‘I am’ is just stating a current situation. It does not make a claim to be God otherwise there’s a whole heap (everyone, in fact) would be claiming to be God as everyone has at sometime or other said, ‘I Am….’
God does not have physical right or left hand… and besides where in scriptures does God mention a left hand? ‘Right Hand’ is a metaphor for ‘enlisted power’.

A king enlists his best warrior as his right hand man: that warrior is ‘the kings right hand’.

And that is why Jesus is seated at the right hand of God… but you say Jesus IS GOD … yet Jesus is seated next to whom you say he is… what kind of logical sense does trinity employ?

One cannot BE GOD and also SAT NEXT TO GOD!

Explain that please!!

Jesus PRAYS TO GOD. But you say Jesus IS GOD!

Explain that please!!

GOD raised up Jesus Christ from the dead. But you say Jesus IS GOD!

Explain that please!!

GOD GRANTED power and life and angels and kingship TO Jesus… yet you say Jesus IS GOD - whom granted Jesus these things!

Explain that please!!

I do not believe God is a man. I believe God is in Jesus and for that reason identifies Jesus as God.

I don't believe a nyah nyah can negate my statement. I believe there is no mixing. I believe all spirits are joined to the flesh to work together although sometimes the spirit will take over. I believe the Spirit of God can do what our spirits can do.

I believe you are in error. The context is that of Jesus identifying Himself as God and no-one else can have that context.

I believe you can't take a vision as physical reality. Jesus isn't actually in Heaven at the time but is somewhere else but He is pictured at the right Hand of God. What I am trying to say to you is that my right hand and my left hand are attached to the same person and just because you can picture my hands separately does not mean that I am not a whole person and the same is true of God.

I believe it makes sense when you understand it. You do have to try to understand though.

I believe God is talking to himself and sometimes that is for the benefit of the listeners.

I don;' believe Jesus would be Jesus without the Spirit of God in it. Since it is God that lives and the body doesn't, it is God that must raise the body and return to it.

I believe that is simply conceptual. I believe God already has the power in Jesus but the world would not see it that way so it has to be seen as a gift. I believe God puts on a good show.

 

[Muffled]

It doesnt matter how many pages you have, if it's false doctrine, it's false doctrine....

I believe if someone could prove me wrong they should have been able to do it in 150 pages. You don't even get off the ground yet.

 

[Muffled]

Are you kidding me ?? Those verses you quoted in your Post #113 are your ‘proofs’ that Jesus was speaking of trinity ??

Here are the verses you quoted in your post #113.


Where in Matthew 5:16 did Jesus say or even imply he’s the Father or giving glory to the Father in heaven is the same as giving glory to him - if that’s what you are trying to suggest.

In Luke 22:70, Jesus is DENYING he is God the Son !! Do you think Jesus would say “You said that I am” if he truly believes he’s God the Son ?? The only reason Jesus responded as such was that he was so fed up with the Jews who kept insisting that he had claimed he was God/God the Son (because they wanted to accuse him of blasphemy) that he responded with, “You said that I am”. In other words, Jesus is saying “I NEVER said or claimed I am God/God the Son, YOU said that I am - NOT me who said that YOU said that”.

In John 14:20, if saying “I am in the Father” makes Jesus the Father, then, Jesus in saying “you in me and I in you” will make all his disciples him (“you in me”) and him his disciples (“I in you”) !!

Those three verses are NOT even referring to trinity, let alone to claim Jesus was referring to a triune God!! Your mind is REALLY muddled up, Muffled !

I believe you wanted a Trinity so I gave you the first person of the Trinity then i gave you two more after that. Proving that the Trinity is the same person (Spirit) is another matter.

I believe that is a false interpretation. I believe that is an acceptance of the appellation.

I believe that to be so but different.

 

[moorea944]

I believe it is obvious that Jesus is God since God says so.

God says that Jesus is Himself? So that son is the father? Can you please give us a verse on that one?

 

[moorea944]

I believe if someone could prove me wrong they should have been able to do it in 150 pages. You don't even get off the ground yet.

We already did. You remind me of the Jews of old with the law. Paul was so frustrated with them. Didnt matter what he said, they still wouldnt budge....

 

[JerryMyers]

I believe you wanted a Trinity so I gave you the first person of the Trinity then i gave you two more after that. Proving that the Trinity is the same person (Spirit) is another matter.

I believe that is a false interpretation. I believe that is an acceptance of the appellation.

I believe that to be so but different.

Say what ???! Your head must be so messed up and muddled that you don’t know what you are talking about.

You need to do better than just 'cherry-picking' a verse here and a verse there and claim those are ‘proofs’ of the man-made trinity! You need to explain with logic and rationale WHY those verses you selected are ‘proofs’ of the trinity !

So, try again, give it another go… come on, you can do it and make your fellow Trinitarians proud of you by explaining with logic and rationale why those verses you selected are ‘proofs’ of the trinity.

 

[Bree]

For those who want lots of scripture that teaches what our Most High God intended us to believe about Him and His Word and His Holy Spirit:

Trinity: True or False?

If the trinity was true, it wouldnt need so much explaining.

The truth is simple.

 

[JerryMyers]

If the trinity was true, it wouldnt need so much explaining.

The truth is simple.

Absolutely, for God is NOT the author of confusion, man is – have you ever listen to someone trying to explain the trinity ?? Man, you can almost feel sorry for him as he tries to make sense out of nonsense ! Fact is, Jesus himself NEVER preached the trinity in his entire life on earth.

 

[metis]

The truth is simple.

Depends in how deep one wants to go. To a child, a tree is simple; but to a botanist, a tree is very complex.

 

[Bree]

Absolutely, for God is NOT the author of confusion, man is – have you ever listen to someone trying to explain the trinity ?? Man, you can almost feel sorry for him as he tries to make sense out of nonsense ! Fact is, Jesus himself NEVER preached the trinity in his entire life on earth.

yep, only the god of chaos could come up with such a convaluted story as the trinity lol

 

[J. Byer]

Moby said: ↑
For those who want lots of scripture that teaches what our Most High God intended us to believe about Him and His Word and His Holy Spirit:

Trinity: True or False?

The concept of a Trinity is definitely False. God at Exodus 20 said there was no image in heaven, on Earth or under the seas that represented Him; the Trinity is an image and therefore it cannot reflect God. Additionally, the third & fourth century church leaders had read the account of Christ’s Baptism by John the Baptist, and it was this fictional story fabricated by Lucius, the Bishop of Cyrene, that prompted a belief that a Trinity existed. It is the only place where the Father, Son & Holy Ghost are all together. As such, Lucius then inserted the same identical fictional story into the gospels of Matthew, Mark and Luke. John’s account only mentions Jesus and a dove; it does not mention “God, the Father,” an image that is impossible based on Exodus 20. Lucius created all the issues and all the confusion about the Trinity because he forged false stories in order to promote Jesus as the Jewish messiah, something that was a hard sell during the first century. Unfortunately all his sales pitches lived on as bible scripture, with the result that people have debated the truth of his fiction for almost 2000 years

 

[Muffled]

God says that Jesus is Himself? So that son is the father? Can you please give us a verse on that one?

Matt 3:17 and behold, a voice from heaven said, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased.”

 

[Muffled]

We already did. You remind me of the Jews of old with the law. Paul was so frustrated with them. Didnt matter what he said, they still wouldnt budge....

I believe if it isn't the answer they want, then they don't view it as the answer.

 

[Muffled]

Say what ???! Your head must be so messed up and muddled that you don’t know what you are talking about.

You need to do better than just 'cherry-picking' a verse here and a verse there and claim those are ‘proofs’ of the man-made trinity! You need to explain with logic and rationale WHY those verses you selected are ‘proofs’ of the trinity !

So, try again, give it another go… come on, you can do it and make your fellow Trinitarians proud of you by explaining with logic and rationale why those verses you selected are ‘proofs’ of the trinity.

I believe I am more rational than most people.

I believe I said that I would need to do that but I am in no hurry. Gen. 24:7 The LORD, the God of heaven ...
Matt 5:16 In the same way, let your light shine before others, so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven.

That proves that the Father is God.

 

[moorea944]

Matt 3:17 and behold, a voice from heaven said, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased.”

And what does that have anything to do with what we're talking about?......