Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Jesus proffered everlasting life, but did not raise the dead or establish a new heaven and new earth or return.
I do not believe in the trinitarian Godhead.
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Trinity
- Thread starter Jimmy
- Start date
I do not believe in the trinitarian Godhead.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
None of those mean that Jesus was God incarnate.
McBell
Unbound
If you are not trying to support your claims, why start your post with "according to the Bible"?
You contradict yourself when you claim you claim no claims.
Sorry, I don't think that is what the Bible tells.
Bible says that also disciples of Jesus are one with God. Does that mean they are also God?
that they may all be one; even as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be one in us; that the world may be-lieve that you sent me.
John 17:21
Being before Abraham doesn't necessary mean one is the God.
Bible tells Jesus is the image of the God. If you have seen the image of God, have you seen God?
… He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation...
Col. 1:14-16
You assume we all accept The Bible as authoritative and an accurate narrative. You haven't established your premises.
What makes you think The Bible is true and the Popol Vuh not?
Is this post based on actual evidence, or folklore?
Jimmy
King Phenomenon
… He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation...
Col. 1:14-
That’s another good one.
I feel Jesus’ presence. He’s a living lord.
Jimmy
King Phenomenon
…because I can feel, through the Holy Spirit, the presence of God and Jesus’ relationship. They are my living God.
Jimmy
King Phenomenon
In John 11:38–44, Jesus raises his friend Lazarus from the dead after four days.
“I am the resurrection and the life.” – John 11:25
- “Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.” (John 5:24)
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
That was simply a reply to the OP, what I believe is in the Bible, as opposed to what the OP believes.
In am making no claims. I only have beliefs.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Below is the spiritual interpretation, as opposed to the literal interpretation, of the Lazarus resurrection ‘story.’
Jesus did not say that the body of Lazarus would rise again. He said rise: 23 Jesus said to her, “Your brother will rise again.”
Then apparently Martha assumed Jesus meant the body: 24 Martha said to Him, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day.”
Then Jesus said that He was the resurrection and the life and that whoever believes in Him will never die.
He was talking about the eternal life of the soul, NOT the eternal life of the physical body.
25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. 26 And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”
The Martha said she believed in Jesus and that He was the Son of God: 27 She said to Him, “Yes, Lord, I believe that You are the Christ, the Son of God, who is to come into the world.”
When Jesus said: 26 And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die He was referring to spiritual death, not physical death, because eventually everyone dies physically.
The following verses congruent with John 11:25-26 refer to the eternal life of the soul, not the eternal life of the body.
John 3:16: For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
1 John 5:13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.
John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
John 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
That means that whoever believes in Jesus will be resurrected to spiritual life, nearness to God.
This has nothing to do with the life of one's physical body.
That is why Jesus said "though he were dead, yet shall he live."
That means even if he was physically dead he would be spiritually alive.
That means that his soul, which is the person, will be spiritually alive in heaven and have eternal life
That means the same thing as the John 11:25.
The soul of anyone who believes in Jesus and God will have eternal life, which is nearness to God. He will not be judged but rather pass from spiritual death to spiritual life.
John 3:5-7 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
John 4:14 but whoever drinks of the water that I will give him shall never thirst; but the water that I will give him will become in him a well of water springing up to eternal life.”
John 7:38-39 He who believes in Me, as the Scripture said, ‘From his innermost being will flow rivers of living water.’” But this He spoke of the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were to receive; for the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.
Maybe Luke 'believed' that Jesus was going to return, but Jesus never said that he was going to return.
Jesus said his work was finished here and he was no more in the world and that the world would see him no more.
(John 14:19, John 16:10, John 17:4, John 17:11, John 19:30)
Ebionite
Well-Known Member
'God' is ambiguous. Moses was a member of Elohim (aka 'God'), as described in Exodus 19:256-20:2, but not a member of the 'God' of official Christian doctrine (Trinitarian).
Jimmy
King Phenomenon
The things Jesus said, obviously mean different things to you, which is cool
JACC2312
Member
No, In fact the very Genesis clearly states that "At The BEGINNING" God SAID "Let there be light" so God's Word is the mean of Creation, God the Father is The ALMIGHTY WILL, he the Father is not a lonely being he has his Eternal Son, The Son, His Word, incarnated in the Time as Jesus Our Lord and Savior, But We can See in the book of Daniel "The Son of the Man" who receives all power and all might from the "Elder of Ages" who is Sited in the Throne of Fire.
The same Genesis speaks of the "Spirit of God" flying over the Waters of the World, as doing according to its own will, thus The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are described in the Book of Genesis as the One God Creator. and in the same Genesis when Abraham was in the Middle of the day under the Sun and received THREE VISITORS he, Abraham, Postrates to Them, and God has a Lunch with Him. in all moment Abraham talks to God as if with one Person and in All time the Sacred Scripture describes the Three as the interlocutor with Abraham.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Where is that in the Book of Daniel?
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Where is that described in the Book of Genesis?
The "Father" and the "Son" are not God.
They are "Stations/Titles" given of God which become manifest in this world relative to our understanding.
As a Baha'i I read your posted Biblical snippets as such.
"I and the Father are one: (John 10:30)", I would see this as Jesus offering that, He the Son, and Baha'u'llah, the Father, are as One.
"Before Abraham was, I am", I see this as all the Messengers who as One in the Holy Spirit, are all the First and the Last.
"If you've seen me, you've seen the Father" I see Jesus is saying, that if you have truly seen Jesus as the Son, you will see Baha'u'llah as the Father. Both are One in God.
Regards Tony
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I would offer this vision of God's interaction with humanity.
1) GOD, Beyond all understanding, unapproachable. The Most Great Spirit.
2) The Holy Spirit given of God (Annointed on all the Messengers from the beginning until the end, all the "Names" of God)
3) The Spirit of Faith, the spiri that enables the connection of the human spirit to the Holy Spirit, we must be born again.
Regards Tony
1) GOD, Beyond all understanding, unapproachable. The Most Great Spirit.
2) The Holy Spirit given of God (Annointed on all the Messengers from the beginning until the end, all the "Names" of God)
3) The Spirit of Faith, the spiri that enables the connection of the human spirit to the Holy Spirit, we must be born again.
Regards Tony
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
@TransmutingSoul
Post #36 and post #37 -- that's why you are here.
I was just about to argue with you and say that God is the Father, but then I read your post to the end...
Keep on truckin.
Post #36 and post #37 -- that's why you are here.
I was just about to argue with you and say that God is the Father, but then I read your post to the end...
Keep on truckin.
Who cares what The Bible says? What really happened?
Can't practitioners of a hundred different religions make the same claims?
Can't inmates in a hundred different psych hospitals make the same claims?
Believable claims need more than feelings, ecstatic experience, and folklore. Faith is unfounded belief. Is there any objective, empirical, reproducible evidence of any of these claims?