True and False Prophets - Just and Honest Determination

[TransmutingSoul]

You left out verse 10.
Isa 53: 10 Yet it was the Lord’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer,
and though the Lord makes his life an offering for sin,
he will see his offspring and prolong his days,
and the will of the Lord will prosper in his hand.

Isa 53 is about someone who suffered and died bearing the sins of people etc
Verse 10 tells us that the Lord made his life an offering for sin. This means that he was killed. That is what happens with the offering for sin in the law. The offering is killed. So after his life is made an offering for sin, he will see his offspring. Baha'u'llah did not die and rise again to see his offspring and prolong his days. Jesus did that.

You interpretation of verse 10 has no authority, as mine also does not have, but it does not have to read as killed.

Both the Messages of both the Bab and Baha'u'llah were crushed from the land of their birth, the Bab gave his life as did Jesus, Baha'u'llah gave all his life as a Messenger in persecution, and imprisonment suffering many afflictions.

You can try many if the prayers that Baha'u'llah left us for forgiveness.

Prayers for Forgiveness - Baha'i Prayers .ca

These are the Baha'i prayers for forgiveness. I am aware, O Lord, that my trespasses have covered my face with shame in Thy presence,

bahaiprayers.ca

Abdul'baha took the Revelation of Baha’u’llah from 1892 through to 1921 and then extended it via Shoghi Effendi until 1957.

All the wrirings of Abdul'baha and Shoghi Effendi are taken as authorised interpretations of the Message of the Bab and Baha'u'llah.

So from 1844 to 1957, we had access to the Word given by God.

That is logically great evidence of a very soundly fulfilled prophecy.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

The Baha'is don't seem to want to dispute different interpretations of the Bible. Whatever agrees with Baha'i and the writings of Baha'u'llah is correct. It is good for them to have as many ways to reach 1844 as possible even if none of them are legitimate interpretations or make any sense when the actual prophecies are read.

That is because we do not need to dispute. The fulfillment is self explanatory.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

But Muhammad is not foretold anywhere in the Bible and the year 1260 has nothing to do with the prophecy in Daniel 12. So basically the Bible does not point to 1844 when the actual prophecies are looked at and interpreted correctly (according to what they say). So it does not matter what happened in 1844, including what Joseph Smith says about it. In reality it has nothing to do with the Bible.

Muhammad and Ali are, but I will offer you will not see they are.

William Miller came to 1844.

Regards Tony

 

[Brian2]

But for most Baha'is... It has to be. If they didn't know about this until after they declared, then they've already committed themselves to believing everything the Baha'i Faith says is true. That is, except a few. But then how do they determine when the Baha'i Faith is true and when it's not?

Once you are in I guess you don't like to admit your error. You have started to invest your life in those beliefs and with those people.
In reality it appears that Baha'is cannot even see their errors.
How to determine when the Baha'i faith is not true when you can't even see the problems? Hmmmm

 

[TransmutingSoul]

But Muhammad is not foretold anywhere in the Bible and the year 1260 has nothing to do with the prophecy in Daniel 12

Daniel 12 Verse 7 - To understand number prophecies there is a few keys in the Bible we must use.

Firstly, a year in the Bible is 360 Days of12 months containing 30 days, this is from the Noah Flood timeline.

Then Each day of Prophecy is equal to a year. (Numbers and Ezekiel).

So how do we get 1260 years, many prophecies are referencing the year 1260 in various ways.

Times, times and half a time = 3 1/2 years = 42 months x 30 days is 1260 days = 1260 years.

Thus 3 1/2 years = 42 months x 30 days is 1260 days = 1260 years.

42 months x 30 days is 1260 days = 1260 years.

1260 days = 1260 years.

Jesus refers us to Daniel to enable us to understand this future prophecy, thus ties the Daniel times, times and half a time to Revelations and 3 1/2 years , 42 months and 1260 days, all referencing the year AH1260.

Thus the two dead bodies laying g in the Street were Muhammad and Ali, as the covernant of Muhammad was broken on hos deathbed and the faith of Islam became one of Laws without the Spirit. (Signified by the dead bodies).

Much can be given in the understanding of these prophecies.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Once you are in I guess you don't like to admit your error. You have started to invest your life in those beliefs and with those people.
In reality it appears that Baha'is cannot even see their errors.
How to determine when the Baha'i faith is not true when you can't even see the problems? Hmmmm

People are looking for errors when there are none, only a lack of understanding on our own part.

Regards Tony

 

[Brian2]

Read it again. I have read it several times.
Psalm 2 mentions the begotten Son of God, but Psalm 2 does not say that the begotten Son of God is going to inherit, rule and judge the nations.

Yes I guess it is easy to miss, let's try again.
Psalm 2:1 Why do the nations conspire
and the peoples plot in vain?
2 The kings of the earth rise up
and the rulers band together
against the Lord and against his anointed, saying,
3 “Let us break their chains
and throw off their shackles.”
4 The One enthroned in heaven laughs;
the Lord scoffs at them.
5 He rebukes them in his anger
and terrifies them in his wrath, saying,
6 “I have installed my king
on Zion, my holy mountain.”
7 I will proclaim the Lord’s decree:

He said to me, “You are my son;
today I have become your father.
8 Ask me,
and I will make the nations your inheritance,
the ends of the earth your possession.
9 You will break them with a rod of iron;
you will dash them to pieces like pottery.”
10 Therefore, you kings, be wise;
be warned, you rulers of the earth.
11 Serve the Lord with fear
and celebrate his rule with trembling.
12 Kiss his son, or he will be angry
and your way will lead to your destruction,
for his wrath can flare up in a moment.
Blessed are all who take refuge in him.

His anointed, the King installed in Zion is the Messiah who is the begotten Son of God to whom God gives the nations and the ends of the earth as His inheritance.
The earth which belongs to the Messiah is going to be ruled over and judged by Him. ( "break them with a rod of iron---dash them to pieces like pottery")

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Matthew 24

Spoiler: The great tribulation

Then Jesus went out and departed from the temple, and his disciples came up to show him the buildings of the temple. And Jesus said to them, “Do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down.”

Now as he sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of your coming, and of the end of the age?”

And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you. For many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many. And you will hear of wars and rumours of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places. All these are the beginning of sorrows.

“Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for my name’s sake. And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. But he who endures to the end shall be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.

“Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes.

But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.

“Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe it. For false christ’s and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. See, I have told you beforehand.

“Therefore if they say to you, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out; or ‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it. For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together.

“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he will send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

“Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. So you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near—at the doors! Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place. Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will by no means pass away.

“But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but my Father only. But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.

Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left. Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Lord is coming. But know this, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into. Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.

Thus chapter refers us to Daniel which contains reference to the year Prophecy of 1260.

Thus the event happens and the the Tribulations begin and many false Christ's arise, after the promise was fulfilled like a thief in the night.

The Great Tribulation
15 “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), 16 “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. 18 And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 19 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the [c]elect’s sake those days will be shortened.

It can be interpreted more than one way.

Regards Tony

 

[Sumadji]

Thus chapter refers us to Daniel which contains reference to the year Prophecy of 1260.

Thus the event happens and the the Tribulations begin and many false Christ's arise, after the promise was fulfilled like a thief in the night.

The Great Tribulation
15 “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), 16 “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. 18 And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 19 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the [c]elect’s sake those days will be shortened.

It can be interpreted more than one way.

Regards Tony

The whole chapter should be read in context, not cherry-picked and manipulated. Any reasonable person reading it will conclude that Christ returns after the tribulation and that many false messiahs and prophets will arise before and during those times

IMO

 

[TransmutingSoul]

The whole chapter should be read in context, not cherry-picked and manipulated. Any reasonable person reading it will conclude that Christ returns after the tribulation and that many false messiahs and prophets will arise before and during those times

IMO

Jesus pointed us to that chapter, one must look to see what it is telling us. William Miller did look at Daniel and came to AD1844, which he did not know also matched the 3 1/2 years of Daniel, which in AD1844 was AH1260.

Regards Tony

 

[WonderingWorrier]

AI Overview
Learn more
The Bible verse that says "I judge between cattle and cattle" is Ezekiel 34:17:

Ezekiel 34:17: "And as for you, O my flock, thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I judge between cattle and cattle, between the rams and the he goats".

In this verse, God judges between the strong and weak sheep, and promises to save his flock from being victimized. God also promises to appoint a shepherd over the flock, like his servant David, who will feed and care for them

The AI overview only includes sheep and didn't mention anything about the cattle or the goats. Like it doesn't know the difference. If it doesn't know the difference then it doesn't actually know what a sheep is. The differences would determine what a sheep is.

There is a very specific difference.

"Why abodest thou among the sheepfolds, to hear the bleatings of the flocks? For the divisions of Reuben there were great searchings of heart". Judges.

There is a very specific reason why Reuban is associated with cattle in the Bible. And there is a very specific reason why Reuban is a North gate of the city next to Judah the lion gate. As the Bible says the lion is with the cattle. Just like the wolf (Benjamin) is with the lamb (Joseph) over in the East gates of the city (made of words).

Okay, according to that verse cattle symbolize people who understand not, have eyes that see not, and ears that hear not.

Yeah it does and here is another verse which doesn't say cattle but it does say the blind, deaf, and dumb are going to hell:

"It is he whom Allah guides, that is on true Guidance; but he whom He leaves astray - for such wilt thou find no protector besides Him. On the Day of Judgment We shall gather, them together, prone on their faces, blind, dumb, and deaf: their abode will be Hell: every time it shows abatement, We shall increase from them the fierceness of the Fire". 17:97

And here is another one with cattle:
Verily Allah will admit those who believe and do righteous deeds, to Gardens beneath which rivers flow; while those who reject Allah will enjoy (this world) and eat as cattle eat; and the Fire will be their abode. 47:12


So the blind, deaf, and dumb are those that go to hell. So perhaps if they could be redirected from hell then they would no longer be as blind, deaf, and dumb. Perhaps the blind, deaf, and dumb could be healed. The cattle that understand not.

I guess you are saying that:

Brass = Tent = Cattle
Silver = House = Goat
Gold = Palace = Sheep

Correct. The vertical word alignment shows equal words of the same position.

Brass - Silver - Gold
Tent - House - Palace
Cattle - Goat - Sheep

I can add more layers of words. Like consider the word cattle is in the corn position.

Brass - Silver - Gold
Tent - House - Palace
Cattle - Goat - Sheep
Bread - Oil - Wine
Corn - Olive - Grape


Consider the ox in the corn:
For it is written in the law of Moses, thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen? Corinthians.

And that the Cattle and the Corn are as the same:
"The seven good kine are seven years; and the seven good ears are seven years: the dream is one". Genesis.

We could hear the three words in a different way.
"And the earth shall hear the corn, and the wine, and the oil; and they shall hear Jezreel". Hosea.

Brass = Tent = Cattle = Corn
Silver = House = Goat = Oil
Gold = Palace = Sheep = Wine

That is why in the Bible the lamb (sheep) is associated with wine. Same word position. Could we possibly agree on this?

 

[Sumadji]

Jesus pointed us to that chapter, one must look to see what it is telling us. William Miller did look at Daniel and came to AD1844, which he did not know also matched the 3 1/2 years of Daniel, which in AD1844 was AH1260.

Regards Tony

Cherry-picking out one short and cryptic phrase from the chapter and then casting an individual cryptic interpretation onto that phrase to infer that is the meaning of the whole chapter, in spite of the clear and obvious intended meaning read in context ...

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Cherry-picking out one short and cryptic phrase from the chapter and then casting an individual cryptic interpretation onto that phrase to infer that is the meaning of the whole chapter, in spite of the clear and obvious intended meaning read in context ...

That reflects the same accusations that the Jews would have used against the Christians, its a repeated pattern in every age.

Regards Tony