True faith teaches by Itself.

[TransmutingSoul]

So, in your opinion, denigrating women is of god and not of man.
So, in your opinion, beheading captured soldiers is of god and not of man.

You do have an interesting outlook.

You have shown that it is no point discussing this with you and I will leave you to your continue deceptive manipulation of what is said.

Regards Tony

 

[ecco]

You have shown that it is no point discussing this with you and I will leave you to your continue deceptive manipulation of what is said.

Regards Tony

You have a losing position. We both know it. But, as a last-ditch retort, you accuse me of "deceptive manipulation of what is said".

Well, here is your opportunity to show precisely how I deceptively manipulated anything.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

This is a great opportunity to remain silent and let Faith teach itself, it is not an easy thing to do at times, but such is life.

The world is in great turmoil, the old world order is coming to a close, in that process people turn away from God to find answers, as they do not see that the religions offer them the answers anymore.

Yet at the same time a new World Order is born, faith in God, that God never leaves us unguided, assists in building that new world. People of no faith, people of more ancient faiths and people of newer faiths will start to work together to acheive a global unity. Governments of the World will talk more about cooperation, movements will start to ensure people of all Nations get justice and have a fair say. The oppression by tyrants will be seen for what it is, men feeding their selfish desires and not of God.

This OP offers that what is of God is driving this change, to me I see that change happening in every event around the world and there is no doubt at all, that our oneness will soon be embraced by the masses.

I hope in the process all the wonderful people on RF remain happy and safe, that their opinions are moderated by the need to embrace our oneness as a human race.



Regards to all Tony.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

How many people on RF are noticing how events such as Afghanistan bring out the choices that call for the world to act and help the people?

This is a good example of how the topic of this OP unfolds in this world.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

There is another good OP started, that I see also reflects how situations in the world come about by the extent we embrace our full capacity, or to the extent we act against that capacity.

World Crisis situations and the media

The more the world turns towards their full capacity, the more that these camps will not be needed as people will be able to live in peace and security.

Regards Tony

 

[Bethel]

What is there to debate on this topic?

Jesus said that He is the truth....John 14:6.

Not "a" truth, but THE truth.
If this is true, then all other belief systems have a big big problem that only Christianity can solve.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Jesus said that He is the truth....John 14:6.

Not "a" truth, but THE truth.
If this is true, then all other belief systems have a big big problem that only Christianity can solve.

That indeed is your view on that Passage, but Jesus the Christ has a faith that does teach us to consider all these issues.

I do not see it as you choose to do, I see that Peter was praised by Jesus when Jesus asked Peter who He was. Peter replied your are Christ and on that understanding the church was to be built.

Christ is thus the Way and the Truth and the light and no one comes to God but via Christ.

So who/what is Christ, Christ is the Anointed One and What was Jesus Anointed with, the Holy Spirit.

So if another Messenger is Annointed with the Holy Spirit, they too are Christ and we can come to God via them.

This is how Jesus a flesh body can be the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End, the Alpha and Omega all the while knowing that the flesh amounts to nothing.

That is because Jesus was Christ and a flesh Jesus will not be seen again but Christ in each age is manifested by God, as God so Chooses.

Regards Tony

 

[Bethel]

That is because Jesus was Christ and a flesh Jesus will not be seen again

Regards Tony

Jesus has a body right now.
He talked with the disciples after he rose from the dead, in a body.

Also, Jesus said that he's coming back, so, he'll be seen again.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Jesus has a body right now.
He talked with the disciples after he rose from the dead, in a body.

Also, Jesus said that he's coming back, so, he'll be seen again.

Yes I see that Jesus the Christ has returned as the Father Baha'u'llah.

There are many passages where Jesus as Christ warns us that the flesh amounts to nothing. The Spirit of who Jesus was, the Christ aspect of Jesus is what returns.

When we embrace that self same Holy Spirit in the New messenger, that Jesus said he would send in a New Name, then we have again seen Jesus.

Jesus said His job was finished and that the Holy Spirit would come again with a new name from the East and that Elijah always comes first.

This is one way True Faith teaches itself, it slowly permeates the mind of man, and all of us that were asleep, when the thief in the night came, are awakened.

All the best, regards Tony

 

[ecco]

You have shown that it is no point discussing this with you and I will leave you to your continue deceptive manipulation of what is said.

Please show where I have been deceptively manipulative. Alternatively, you could retract your fraudulent accusation.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

So, in your opinion, denigrating women is of god and not of man.
So, in your opinion, beheading captured soldiers is of god and not of man.

Please show where I have been deceptively manipulative. Alternatively, you could retract your fraudulent accusation.

I did not give opinions as you stated, you took what was said and deceptively minipulated it to offer what you wanted to say.

So you could apologise, but I do not expect you would.

So we are back to there is no point discussing these issues with you.

I honestly wish you all the best in life, but a lifeline for you and your winner, maybe you can show me to be wrong, maybe you can offer that was not a nice and appropriate reply.

I personally see Afghanistan may surprise us all, it may be the voice of the women and the people will be heard this time, but I suspect there will still be hardline tyranny and much sacrafice before that will come about.

I notice on the news that the Women will not be quite, good on them, they are brave and God has given them a voice, they have equality with men, this is one example of how the Word of God unfolds.

Regards Tony

 

[ecco]

So let's see what the world does about Afghanistan. My guess is that what is actually of God and not man, will win the day. These things do not happen overnight and that is how the Word of God is embraced, it permeates the world one heart at a time.

I did not give opinions as you stated, you took what was said and deceptively minipulated it to offer what you wanted to say.

So you could apologise, but I do not expect you would.

I can only go by what you write: "what is actually of God and not man, will win the day." I responded to that.

What will happen in Afghanistan is that women will once again be downtrodden, brutally. You indicated that was "actually of God". "God's will", in other words. I realize English is not your first language, but I'm not going to try to read into what you say, I'm going to take it at face value.

After I responded, you somewhat modified your comment by suggesting that things will change - sometime.

I ... but I suspect there will still be hardline tyranny and much sacrafice before that will come about.

But I'll stick to my original comment based on your original post. If you intended something different, well, again, it's not up to me to try to figure out what you mean other than to go by what you actually write.

​

I notice on the news that the Women will not be quite, good on them, they are brave and God has given them a voice, they have equality with men, this is one example of how the Word of God unfolds.

I'll assume "quite" was a typo and your meant "quiet".

As of today, the Taliban has not cracked down hard on women. If you want to see this as an example of God's Word unfolding, then I look forward to your comments when the Taliban does crack down on women as they inevitably will. Will you look at that as God's Word unfolding also?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I can only go by what you write: "what is actually of God and not man, will win the day." I responded to that.

You respond with your thougts contributed to me.

You know what I am offering, that the Taliban are not following God's Word, but you still are offering your thoughts as mine

Regards Tony

 

[joelr]

What is there to debate on this topic?

Well I guess that is the entire debate about God and Religion.

I have done some interesting reading from talks given by Abdu’l-Baha early on, before the first world war in America. What I have been reading is all the press releases of that time and how he was seen by the reporters and the public.

What I have found is that my view of faith and how to share it has been very wrong, in fact I feel as a Baha'i we have got it wrong in many ways.

I now consider that True Faith, given by God actually teaches itself. The written Word is proof of what we will and can become, only if we become that Word in our own lives and that and only that is the ultimate teacher.

Thus Abdul'baha offered no one needs to change their Faith, as a True Christian, or a Muslim, or a Hindu, or a Buddhist is already true to God.

This is from my Faith, I am sure yours also has writings that will give the same thoughts.

"When asked on one occasion: “What is a Bahá’í?” ‘Abdu’l-Bahá replied: “To be a Bahá’í simply means to love all the world; to love humanity and try to serve it; to work for universal peace and universal brotherhood.” On another occasion He defined a Bahá’í as “one endowed with all the perfections of man in activity.” In one of His London talks He said that a man may be a Bahá’í even if He has never heard the name of Bahá’u’lláh. He added:—
The man who lives the life according to the teachings of Bahá’u’lláh is already a Bahá’í. On the other hand, a man may call himself a Bahá’í for fifty years, and if he does not live the life he is not a Bahá’í. An ugly man may call himself handsome, but he deceives no one,.... not even himself."

Thus I am thinking that God has a plan, our lives are directed by our obedience to that plan, or our ignorance, or even rebellion against it.

Can you argue against that? If the intent of your Faith is to be the best you can and become one with all others, would you still argue with others of another faith that have the same goal?

I am seeing the argument over doctrinal differences only feeds the fire of disunity.

It may be that we are to find a unity in our diversity of Faiths, only when we practice what those Faiths offer in personal conduct.

Regards Tony

Yes you can argue against this. You don't need stories about supernatural communications with a God to serve humanity and want to do good things.
Evidence and critical thinking do not support these things. We are seeing what happens when people lack critical thinking skills. They tend to believe harmful things. We have seen this in recent political movements.
And what happens when one faction of a religion decides that the new message from God is to kill all the infidels?
Or another person convinces people he is the new God messenger and he hears a violent message.
People need critical thinking skills and to understand how to use evidence rather than emotional thinking and confirmation bias.

In the book about the Bahai prophet several important catagories are listed that a true messenger of God would have if he were legit.
One was bringing new philosophies, new facts about science, prophecies and a few others.

There was no new philosophies in the philosophy section. In fact compared to philosophers of the last few centuries it was not philosophy at all.
The prophecies were as vague as all others and dead wrong on one of them.
The science was all completely wrong and made statements that were demonstrably false. I pointed this all out in a thread.
But facts and evidence are not actually compelling to people who have already made emotional attachments to a religion.

Religious movements change, new prophets emerge, radical groups will also emerge. Only being able to look honestly at evidence (there isn't any for any religions) will we be able to move past this.
We can still do good things for humanity without people claiming to be having conversations with a God.
If you can only do your best because you are practicing a faith rather than just wanting to be a good person then that's also a problem.

Thus I am thinking that God has a plan, our lives are directed by our obedience to that plan, or our ignorance, or even rebellion against it.

See? Act the way I think you should according to my interpretation of my religion and then things go good. Otherwise it's all bad. Even worse, it's now "obedience" to an interpretation, like it's some king in the sky?
Or if you find the evidence completely lacking now you are "rebelling"??
So are you disobediant to Krishna? Are you rebelling against the Mormon version of God? No, you just find them to be make believe stories. See lack of critical thinking causes people to call others disobediant and rebels?

 

[joelr]

You respond with your thougts contributed to me.

You know what I am offering, that the Taliban are not following God's Word, but you still are offering your thoughts as mine

Regards Tony

Please demonstrate how you can prove God has spoken words to people.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Please demonstrate how you can prove God has spoken words to people.

This one will suffice.

"For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works." – Matthew 16:27.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Yes you can argue against this. You don't need stories about supernatural communications with a God to serve humanity and want to do good things.
Evidence and critical thinking do not support these things. We are seeing what happens when people lack critical thinking skills. They tend to believe harmful things. We have seen this in recent political movements.
And what happens when one faction of a religion decides that the new message from God is to kill all the infidels?
Or another person convinces people he is the new God messenger and he hears a violent message.
People need critical thinking skills and to understand how to use evidence rather than emotional thinking and confirmation bias.

In the book about the Bahai prophet several important catagories are listed that a true messenger of God would have if he were legit.
One was bringing new philosophies, new facts about science, prophecies and a few others.

There was no new philosophies in the philosophy section. In fact compared to philosophers of the last few centuries it was not philosophy at all.
The prophecies were as vague as all others and dead wrong on one of them.
The science was all completely wrong and made statements that were demonstrably false. I pointed this all out in a thread.
But facts and evidence are not actually compelling to people who have already made emotional attachments to a religion.

Religious movements change, new prophets emerge, radical groups will also emerge. Only being able to look honestly at evidence (there isn't any for any religions) will we be able to move past this.
We can still do good things for humanity without people claiming to be having conversations with a God.
If you can only do your best because you are practicing a faith rather than just wanting to be a good person then that's also a problem.




See? Act the way I think you should according to my interpretation of my religion and then things go good. Otherwise it's all bad. Even worse, it's now "obedience" to an interpretation, like it's some king in the sky?
Or if you find the evidence completely lacking now you are "rebelling"??
So are you disobediant to Krishna? Are you rebelling against the Mormon version of God? No, you just find them to be make believe stories. See lack of critical thinking causes people to call others disobediant and rebels?

No comment.

Regards Tony

 

[joelr]

This one will suffice.

"For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works." – Matthew 16:27.

Regards Tony

Your response is "it's true because it says it's true"???????

At that using Matthew is the absolute worst reference because even Christian scholarship admits it's a re-interpretation of Mark:

The Synoptic Problem | Bible.org

"It is quite impossible to hold that the three synoptic gospels were completely independent from each other. In the least, they had to have shared a common oral tradition. But the vast bulk of NT scholars today would argue for much more than that."

"Percentage-wise, 97% of Mark’s Gospel is duplicated in Matthew; "

There are 7 conclusive arguments that demonstrate the solution to the Synoptic Problem is the Markan Priority. Which is summed up in the article and is a fancy way of saying the author of Matthew used Mark and updated it with his personal theology (he called for a return to Judaism first).


But that doesn't even mention how to determine how on demonstrates that a God communicates with people? The author is explaining that a demigod savior myth is going to happen in real life (all Middle Eastern religions were Hellenized during this time and they all had saviors coming) but there is no evidence it really happened except for myths?
According to your logic every scripture that says a demigod is coming or any other supernatural thing is true because someone wrote it down? Even though this was the rage in the region during that time? The stories are not even original?

 

[ecco]

So let's see what the world does about Afghanistan. My guess is that what is actually of God and not man, will win the day. These things do not happen overnight and that is how the Word of God is embraced, it permeates the world one heart at a time.

You know what I am offering, that the Taliban are not following God's Word, but you still are offering your thoughts as mine

Perhaps you need to make your thoughts clearer.

What did you intend to convey when you wrote "My guess is that what is actually of God and not man, will win the day."
Are you talking about now and the foreseeable future with the Taliban in charge?
Are you asserting that it was God's will that the Taliban took over?
Are you conveying that it was acceptable to God that the Taliban took over?

Are you denying that God and Allah are one and the same?
Are you denying that the Taliban worship, and believe they are doing the work of, Allah?





ETA: Your name change was also very confusing. A heads up would have been appreciated.

 

[Trailblazer]

Jesus has a body right now.
He talked with the disciples after he rose from the dead, in a body.

Also, Jesus said that he's coming back, so, he'll be seen again.

I believe that Jesus has a body, but it is a spiritual body, not a physical body, because there is nothing physical in heaven.

With all due respect to your beliefs, Jesus never said He was coming back to earth, not even one in the entire New Testament. In fact, before Jesus left the earth He said His work was finished here and He was no more in the world.

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

Can't get much clearer than that. I really don't know how Christians can explain those verses away. Either the Bible is in error, in which case there would be no reason to believe any other verses, or Jesus is not coming back to earth.