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True faith teaches by Itself.
- Thread starter TransmutingSoul
- Start date
Noticing problems in your assertions and pointing them out via reason is not proselytizing. Nor does it present any view. It is critical thought. I've acknowledged I'm an atheist to answer your questions. At best it shows I do not share your beliefs. But not sharing beliefs is not a view itself.
Only if one of us doesn't employ reason and critical analysis. But one is, as can be observed.
Anyway, you were about to provide evidence for a spirit?
rational experiences
Veteran Member
As a human I would ask what a human meant as a God O planet message. Notification advice.
I would ask did they have bodily changes that identified Christ conditions of pre warned pre owned temple pyramid science.
That had come again. Stated by science to return to attack change earth due to what earth science had changed. It's heavens. Our life support and wandering stars ignition.
To prove once again to men as egotists as scientists that they never controlled the cosmic body.
Seeing men in groups had taken possession of ownership of planet earth and anything it owned.
Including food grown. Either they would not share so we starved or made you pay for what God had grown in mother's nature. As they said it was a business and lied.
That lying male group the first cult.
The reason I say this statement....I never really believed a man was the status Jesus. However I believed that man as a very spiritual life observed was psychic was loving and cared for humanity.
Proven by his healer medical studies. His love as unconditional as it could be expressed by a mortal human.
My reason is via burning gases I saw by outside smoking Brown black wisping then seen images occurred as my brain prickled with excruciating burning.
I thought crown of thorns meaning as a description attack on mind. As science design was thought by human men.
Images floated above ground cooling then disappeared in my brain attack which stopped.
Unnatural instant womb bleeding was once on seeing metal sphere appear instant in sky.
Observation the occult. Owned practiced nuclear satanic sciences. Changing our bio life support our heavens.
Cause of.
Common sense says natural mass is natural. When it changes we get life changed. All humans are equal in equal heavens as water oxygen. Holy water holy life.
So we notify self of change
I am not my brother. I got attacked.
So if science the liar told science it is a liar it would say you made natural change so it then attacked life.
Science controls machines. Science never controlled natural.
Baha'i incident just another human proof that science is a liar.
Science had become a forbidden practice.
Biden.
The practice was re emerging again. As human life mind and body had been healing.
So Baha'i challenged the community re emerging again into occult science memory. As science during this history was re emerging. As studies.
Why it was a past life challenge at the times mind changed by cause atmosphere is proven as a cause of belief.
As belief is based on personal experience.
Thesis is based on want.
The reason to quote why no man is God.
I would ask did they have bodily changes that identified Christ conditions of pre warned pre owned temple pyramid science.
That had come again. Stated by science to return to attack change earth due to what earth science had changed. It's heavens. Our life support and wandering stars ignition.
To prove once again to men as egotists as scientists that they never controlled the cosmic body.
Seeing men in groups had taken possession of ownership of planet earth and anything it owned.
Including food grown. Either they would not share so we starved or made you pay for what God had grown in mother's nature. As they said it was a business and lied.
That lying male group the first cult.
The reason I say this statement....I never really believed a man was the status Jesus. However I believed that man as a very spiritual life observed was psychic was loving and cared for humanity.
Proven by his healer medical studies. His love as unconditional as it could be expressed by a mortal human.
My reason is via burning gases I saw by outside smoking Brown black wisping then seen images occurred as my brain prickled with excruciating burning.
I thought crown of thorns meaning as a description attack on mind. As science design was thought by human men.
Images floated above ground cooling then disappeared in my brain attack which stopped.
Unnatural instant womb bleeding was once on seeing metal sphere appear instant in sky.
Observation the occult. Owned practiced nuclear satanic sciences. Changing our bio life support our heavens.
Cause of.
Common sense says natural mass is natural. When it changes we get life changed. All humans are equal in equal heavens as water oxygen. Holy water holy life.
So we notify self of change
I am not my brother. I got attacked.
So if science the liar told science it is a liar it would say you made natural change so it then attacked life.
Science controls machines. Science never controlled natural.
Baha'i incident just another human proof that science is a liar.
Science had become a forbidden practice.
Biden.
The practice was re emerging again. As human life mind and body had been healing.
So Baha'i challenged the community re emerging again into occult science memory. As science during this history was re emerging. As studies.
Why it was a past life challenge at the times mind changed by cause atmosphere is proven as a cause of belief.
As belief is based on personal experience.
Thesis is based on want.
The reason to quote why no man is God.
Some choose to completely disregard valid and strong evidence of the Spirit and use a metrialistic, sense based view of science to negate all that is said.
Regards Tony
You haven't provided any. If it is so prevalent that it has to be disregarded then there should be no problem. Let's see it.
ecco
Veteran Member
The Word cannot be important to you either. Maybe it's my old, clogged brain, but I do not remember you, or any other Bahai, making a big deal out of The Word in the past.
So the best you can do to support your contention about The Word is to cut and paste something attributed to your messenger. Perhaps that is meaningful to you. It's not meaningful to the vast majority of humanity. The vast majority of humanity has never heard about The Word. Therefore, it is not going to move the vast majority of humanity.
Ya think? Why would you expect anyone, especially an atheist, to be moved by the writings of a disgruntled Muslim?
For those who claim some sort of absolute truth it should be easy for them to answer any questions ABOUT that truth. I say it is easy because if a mortal has absolute truth they have the advantage of a clarity and understanding that the ordinary mortal slob does not. If there are questions posed to a person who claims some absolute truth that confounds and frustrates the claimant then there is an obvious problem about the claim.
What problem is there? It could be that the "messenger" and holder of this absolute truth has misjudged their ability, what the truth is, their own thinking process, that the truth is flawed in a way that a flawed believer does not recognize due to bias, etc. In any event if a mortal claims to know absolute truth in some way, and this flawed mortal has bothered to subject him/herself to a rigorous and objective test in reality and could verify the truth, then it's fair for others to ask to see this method and process to peer review.
However we often see the claimants of absolute truth become frustrated with ongoing questions. They tend to make more claims heaped on initial claims which only results in more questions. these claimants are eager to believe, not eager to reason through WHAT they believe for their own sake of intellectual integrity. I suspect they have a sense their ideology is subjective and weak and seek agreement by others to help bolster their confidence. This backfires. It's not unusual that these strong believers disappear from the forums. There is a valuable lesson here for them.
What problem is there? It could be that the "messenger" and holder of this absolute truth has misjudged their ability, what the truth is, their own thinking process, that the truth is flawed in a way that a flawed believer does not recognize due to bias, etc. In any event if a mortal claims to know absolute truth in some way, and this flawed mortal has bothered to subject him/herself to a rigorous and objective test in reality and could verify the truth, then it's fair for others to ask to see this method and process to peer review.
However we often see the claimants of absolute truth become frustrated with ongoing questions. They tend to make more claims heaped on initial claims which only results in more questions. these claimants are eager to believe, not eager to reason through WHAT they believe for their own sake of intellectual integrity. I suspect they have a sense their ideology is subjective and weak and seek agreement by others to help bolster their confidence. This backfires. It's not unusual that these strong believers disappear from the forums. There is a valuable lesson here for them.
Your current chosen frame of reference is not letting you see what the Baha'i think about the Word of God as given by Jesus the Christ and all Messengers.
Regards Tony
The vast Majority do know of that Word I speak of, as it is the founders of all the Worlds Faiths that spoke that Word from God.
Regards Tony
That is what this OP is all about. As people move away from that Word, the standard for humanity, the worse the world affairs become. Thus it is people of Faith that become exclusive with their faith, or misguided in its implementation, those that move away from God and materialism that darken the worlds affairs.
So consider, the world and its affairs are a direct consequence of neglect of God and the given Messages to humanity.
That in one way or another is taught in all God given Faiths, we are constantly warned that turning to God is for our own benefit, as God does not need us.
Regards Tony
Faith does not teach Absolute Truth, it teaches Relative Truth.
Man does not have the capacity of Absolute Truth.
Regards Tony
That is why you have an issue, Faith does not teach Absolute Truth, it teaches Truth relevant to the age we live in and our given capacity.
Those that bring that relative Truth also do not claim Absolute Truth, they tell us that is God and God only that has that Station and we will never know God.
Thus a person of Faith remains silent when people do not accept that relative truth for the age we live, that truth will unfold without argument as the Word given is a new creation, it is infused into our capacity, in the age we live, it becomes the standard to which we can aspire to, even if we do not recognise the source.
Regards Tony
I find it hard to understand what you are saying, sorry.
I picked up that you also offered Jesus was not God and also see you include Baha'u'llah as you mention Baha'i.
That is also what Jesus and Baha'u'llah said, they are both men like all others.
Baha'u'llah has explained that a Messenger has a twofold station, that of a man like us, but also as the chosen Self of God amongst us.
That self is not flesh and bone, it is like a perfect reflection of the attributes in a perfect polished mirror. It is the Spirit shining from that Messenger in Virtues and deeds.
So yes no man is God, we can only reflect the attributes of God, it depends on our recognition of the source of the Spirit and our attachment to it. The Bible teaches us the process is being born from the flesh, into the Spirit.
Regards Tony
An example of what is offered in this OP is that if God gives a teaching that the extremes of wealth and poverty must be abolished, as soon as that word is uttered in this world, that becomes the potential in us all.
Thus those that aspire to make the world a better place have that standard at the core of their being, in a materialistic world that becomes the standard, that standard reflects that no small percentage of persons are able to obtain an obscene amount of wealth, while the vast majority lack the basic living requirements.
That is applicable to every Word that was offered from God, they are the cause of any advancement we can make. Like in this age Science has been given as a path along with religion to determine what it True and what is false. From the very moment the Message was proclaimed, that contained those teachings, the capacity was released to all humanity and science could advance, no longer tied to spiritual doctrine, but now capable as long as it works alongside spiritual truth.
Regards Tony
Thus those that aspire to make the world a better place have that standard at the core of their being, in a materialistic world that becomes the standard, that standard reflects that no small percentage of persons are able to obtain an obscene amount of wealth, while the vast majority lack the basic living requirements.
That is applicable to every Word that was offered from God, they are the cause of any advancement we can make. Like in this age Science has been given as a path along with religion to determine what it True and what is false. From the very moment the Message was proclaimed, that contained those teachings, the capacity was released to all humanity and science could advance, no longer tied to spiritual doctrine, but now capable as long as it works alongside spiritual truth.
Regards Tony
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What is his chosen frame of reference, and how is it a liability in "seeing" what the Bahai think about the Bible?
If the Bahai are being unclear about what they think of the Bible couldn't that be their problem?
And who says the bahai are correct in their beliefs except the bahai themselves? If they are correct in their views they should be able to articulate an explanation of what they think the truth is, and that truth will be consistent with what we know of reality, yes?
That is this OP F1fan. The issue is we are in transition and as such the ingredients are mixed, put into the pan, then into the oven and the cake is being baked, but the result will only be seen when it's pulled from the oven.
The principles are many, they stand on their own merit and they have been shared and articulated on this Forum many many times over many years.
Only the person who mixed and is baking the cake knows its true value, apart from a few the recipe has been shared with, many need to first see the result, before they try a piece, but once seen and tasted, they can not get enough.
Regards Tony
You avoided my questions. Is there a problem answering them directly?
ecco
Veteran Member
It's really hard for you to actually address my comments. Why is that? If The Word is really important, why can't you defend it? Tap dancing around isn't defending.
As I said earlier, the best you can do to support your contention about The Word is to cut and paste something attributed to your messenger. Perhaps that is meaningful to you. It's not meaningful to the vast majority of humanity. The vast majority of humanity has never heard about The Word. Therefore, it is not going to move the vast majority of humanity.
ecco
Veteran Member
That is true. It also proves that your contention, as expressed in the title of the OP, is completely wrong. You asserted:
True faith teaches by Itself.
Furthermore, if your "True Fith" had been teaching itself, you wouldn't need to be here trying to convince anyone of your views.
Wikipedia states:
Baháʼu'lláh (b. Ḥusayn-ʻAlí, 12 November 1817 – 29 May 1892) was a Persian religious leader, and the founder of the Baháʼí Faith, which advocates universal peace and unity among all races, nations, and religions.
We clearly have not seen any increase in universal peace and unity among all races, nations, and religions. I'd say that's pretty much another failure.