True faith teaches by Itself.

[TransmutingSoul]

If you want global unity you're going to have to be willing to admit error and answer questions. I've seen numerous Bahia folks on here and they are notably over-confident and don't do well in debate. The dilemma of having all the answers that someone else came up with is having to defend them if you insist they are true.

Sorry if this offends you, but maybe it is good for you and others to know, that actually it is following a teaching of my Faith, which is not to talk of the Spirit to those that do not want to know of it. You have made it clear you do not beleive in our spiritual foundation, have you not?

Thus I am advised to let true faith speak for itself, for me to just live the life and not argue, or we just end up in pointless debate which helps no one at all.

Regards Tony

 

[ecco]

That is how the Word Teaches Itself, well done. That is this OP and that is how the Word unfolds in our hearts, we embrace the Word that is renewed, it brings a fresh impulse and direction in life.

What Word? Who has been hearing this Word? Who has been spreading this Word?

Well that is what Faith is all about, it is about finding who we are and what motivates us in life. When we find those answers for our own self, you answer your next point.

So, there ain't no Word.

 

[ecco]

What did they find that allowed them to disperse with their previous superstition?

In terms of pagans becoming Christians:
Strong Government support for the new religion.
Being able to hold on to their holidays.
Boredom with the old.

In terms of Muslims becoming Bahai's:
You tell me.

You have the answer that True Faith teaches itself, people find and embrace what has been offered.

Nah! For the most part, children end up believing the religion of their parents.
Most Christians today are Christian because their parents were Christian, not because they found a new "True Faith".
Most Muslims today are Muslim because their parents were Muslim, not because they found a new "True Faith".
Most Hindus today are Hindu because their parents were Hindu, not because they found a new "True Faith".

 

[TransmutingSoul]

What Word? Who has been hearing this Word? Who has been spreading this Word?

I am more than sure you know the answer to that question. So that is the Quandary we all face.

A good exercise would be to consider what you see the world must do to obtain peace and then see if that is in tune with what unfolds in the world.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

In terms of Muslims becoming Bahai's:
You tell me.

Or we could ask them, only if we wanted to.

Regards Tony

 

[ecco]

The keyword being "IF". I prefer to live in reality. It makes much more sense than hoping for make-believe "ifs".

The if is for you to decide and as you know, we are happy to walk this life side by side with those ifs, we can live in peace with them.

Not at all. Remember, you are the one who put the "if" in the following...

It is also why as stated in the OP, if all beleiver were to return to the core values of their Faith and not argue doctrine, we all can become one.

Did you do that because you know that everything that follows the "IF" is hypothetical nonsense?

To me there are many that have walked this earth in the light that also shone from Mīrzā Ḥusayn ʿAlī Nūrī and that is the OP, their given faiths teach by themselves, they do not need us to accept, the principle they are built upon, become the standards we aspire to.

All of those chose their own doctrine rather than try reconciliation. You keep making comments that support my views, not yours.

 

[ecco]

I am more than sure you know the answer to that question. So that is the Quandary we all face.

Let's stop the ducking and dodging BS, shall we? You made a post about the Word. I commented that there is no "Word". I asked you to support your allegation about a "Word". You couldn't. When pressed, you posted nonsense that you are sure that I know the mysterious Word you have been going on about.

You are really having a tough time supporting anything you have posted in this thread,

 

[ecco]

Or we could ask them, only if we wanted to.

Regards Tony

Another cop-out. It's getting boring.

 

[F1fan]

Sorry if this offends you, but maybe it is good for you and others to know, that actually it is following a teaching of my Faith, which is not to talk of the Spirit to those that do not want to know of it.

Why do you think your religious beliefs are important to anyone else? This is a debate forum and you are free to share, but expect rebuttals to your claims. We atheists don't believe in spirits, so when theists refer to religious ideas as if they are facts it indicates a number of things.

You have made it clear you do not beleive in our spiritual foundation, have you not?

I don't see much that is spiritual. I see believers with a head full or irrational concepts, and that is contrary to the intellect.

Thus I am advised to let true faith speak for itself,

There is no "true faith" and it doesn't;t exist to speak for itself. Theists need to take responsibility for their beliefs and claims. Pretending to be the spokesman to some higher truth is not convincing.

for me to just live the life and not argue, or we just end up in pointless debate which helps no one at all.

This IS a debate forum. And we discuss ideas that we are not certain about, that is healthy discourse. Trying to avoid the pressure and responsibility of making claims aint gonna work here. If you make claims, they will be assessed and criticized if there are problems.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

You are really having a tough time supporting anything you have posted in this thread,

Another cop-out. It's getting boring.

It's not a game for me, the OP is considered by taking into account passages such as this.

".. The Word of God is the king of words and its pervasive influence is incalculable. It hath ever dominated and will continue to dominate the realm of being. The Great Being saith: The Word is the master key for the whole world, inasmuch as through its potency the doors of the hearts of men, which in reality are the doors of heaven, are unlocked…. It is an ocean inexhaustible in riches, comprehending all things. Every thing which can be perceived is but an emanation therefrom." – Tablets of Baha’u’llah, p. 153.

Even you responses are in direct proportion to your willingness to embrace that Word.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

This IS a debate forum. And we discuss ideas that we are not certain about, that is healthy discourse. Trying to avoid the pressure and responsibility of making claims aint gonna work here. If you make claims, they will be assessed and criticized if there are problems

This is solved by one question, do you beleive in the Holy Spirit?

Regards Tony

 

[F1fan]

This is solved by one question, do you beleive in the Holy Spirit?

As an atheist, of course not. This is a concept that doesn't correspond to anything known to exist outside of human imagination. Can you acknowledge this?

 

[F1fan]

It's not a game for me, the OP is considered by taking into account passages such as this.

".. The Word of God is the king of words and its pervasive influence is incalculable. It hath ever dominated and will continue to dominate the realm of being. The Great Being saith: The Word is the master key for the whole world, inasmuch as through its potency the doors of the hearts of men, which in reality are the doors of heaven, are unlocked…. It is an ocean inexhaustible in riches, comprehending all things. Every thing which can be perceived is but an emanation therefrom." – Tablets of Baha’u’llah, p. 153.

This passage makes assumptions that aren't factual, so we can throw it out.

Even you responses are in direct proportion to your willingness to embrace that Word.

I don't see him embracing it in any way.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

As an atheist, of course not. This is a concept that doesn't correspond to anything known to exist outside of human imagination. Can you acknowledge this?

Then this subject has no meaning for you. It is pointless for you to debate and I am not here to prove the point for you. For those that do believe, there is a point to this debate.

Though I will offer that word also directs your life, your stance makes it pointless to discuss and vise versa.

Regards Tony

 

[F1fan]

Then this subject has no meaning for you. It is pointless for you to debate and I am not here to prove the point for you.

You are correct that the subject has no meaning for me, but debate does. Plus I like to point out to others how their beliefs and ideals are not rational and help them adjust if it's possible.

For those that do believe, there is a point to this debate.

Debate is typically a search for truth, and that includes revealing ideas that are not truth through critical analysis.

Though I will offer that word also directs your life, your stance makes it pointless to discuss and vise versa.

Do you think your beliefs are absolute and you are beyond error? Is there any possibility you could be mistaken in your religious beliefs?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Debate is typically a search for truth, and that includes revealing ideas that are not truth through critical analysis.

Debate may have been that at one time, but not anymore. Also through critical analysis would not omit the existence of the Spirit, especially the evidence there is of it.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Do you think your beliefs are absolute and you are beyond error? Is there any possibility you could be mistaken in your religious beliefs?

My beliefs are prone to all error.

The Word has no error, that is how it teaches by itself.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Plus I like to point out to others how their beliefs and ideals are not rational and help them adjust if it's possible.

So prolteszing your view, but when I choose not to, that is, to stop offering more on the topic because you are not interested, it is seen as an inability to prove a subject.

Regards Tony

 

[F1fan]

Debate may have been that at one time, but not anymore.

I think you are bluffing, so explain how debate isn't a search for truth when debaters use critical analysis.

Also through critical analysis would not omit the existence of the Spirit, especially the evidence there is of it.

Really? There are no spirits known to exist, so offer evidence that it does. BTW if you engage in this debate you are demonstrating your above claim false.

 

[F1fan]

My beliefs are prone to all error.

The Word has no error, that is how it teaches by itself.

Yet it is your belief that the Word has no error, so you could be mistaken in your judgment about it.

And even if a text is accurate it still doesn't teach itself. A book on anatomy doesn't teach the subject, it's just a resource that a person can use for information.