True faith teaches by Itself.

[viole]

Of course.

Would you still love them if they stoned your daughter?

Ciao

- viole

 

[Regiomontanus]

Would you still love them if they stoned your daughter?

Ciao

- viole

I do not know of any exceptions to loving one's enemy.

 

[viole]

I do not know of any exceptions to loving one's enemy.

So, if you had the power to shoot him before he stones or rape your daughter, would you indeed shoot him? Or would just let him kill and rape the girl because you love him?

Ciao

- viole

 

[Aupmanyav]

.. let's talk about our hopes and goals in life.

For me, 'Satyam vada, Dharmam chara' (Speak truth, go by your duty).

Ha ha, another doctrine.
Since that will not happen, ..

If that does not happen (abandonment of all religions), then conflicts will continue.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

For me, 'Satyam vada, Dharmam chara' (Speak truth, go by your duty).

Well done Aupmanyav, that is great Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

So, if you had the power to shoot him before he stones or rape your daughter, would you indeed shoot him? Or would just let him kill and rape the girl because you love him?

Ciao

- viole

If there is no authority to appeal to, then one has an obligation to protect the victims.

In my faith is says it is better to be killed than kill.

Regards Tony

 

[Vinayaka]

I believe true faith does teach by itself. No prophet needed. No scripture needed. True knowledge is within, and can be drawn out by esoteric practices.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I believe true faith does teach by itself. No prophet needed. No scripture needed. True knowledge is within, and can be drawn out by esoteric practices.

We would agree it has to brought out from within

Regards Tony

 

[F1fan]

That is what Faith is all about, and without realising it you are supporting the comment you have replied to. Would you not be an individual with their own opinion?

Faith is notoriously unreliable and justifies bad decisions.

And I reserve the right to support comments or be critical of them. Me being critical of your comment in no way implies i support it. Please don't try to steal my own intentions from me as if you are a god.

I can offer you Names of people that have told us of God's plan, but I am happy to leave it with your comment and wish you all the best, unless you wish to explore all faiths to find God in them all? I am happy to explore that with you.

I have no doubt there's a long list of people who think they know a God exists and that it has plans for them. That is a claim that has a LOT of burden of proof. I won't take believer testimony at face value.

What I have read, is that God's plan is inclusive of all people and allowing all people at some time, the choice of knowledge and acceptance, and that if by circumstances that does not happen, like the death of an infant, then they are under the mercy and bounty of God.

You read what other people claimed, and you bought it. My question is why you bought their claims when you repeat them, and offer no tests in reality. Do you think it fair to make assumptions that you try to impose on others as if they have no choice but to accept what you have decided is true?

Your example of a dead infant is common for those who claim God's plan. From a psychological explanation people will think this sort of thing to help cope with the loss. These are not reasoned or rational beliefs, these are illusions that people in stress and trauma employ to offset the massive emotional overload.

 

[oldbadger]

They are one and all fellow human beings that are to be treated with compassion and justice.

The actions are what the world will judge.

Love of one's enemies cannot be hypocritical, that Love does not have to embrace their chosen actions.

Regards Tony

On another thread a post of yours read as if you wanted to wage war against the Taliban. I remember responding to it.

 

[ecco]

What you have to consider is that they can and do get reconciled.

A good majority of those that became Christians in the history of the growth of Christianity, did not have that doctrine, but reconciled their past with the new.

You are mixing apples and oranges.

Apples
The pagans who converted to Christianity did not do so because they reconciled differences. They did so because they abandoned their previous superstitions. The Arabs who converted to Islam did not do so because they reconciled differences. They did so because they abandoned their previous superstitions (often in the face of convert or die).

Oranges
The Christians who split off into thousands of sects, especially those who followed Luther away from Rome found the Roman doctrine to be wrong and started a new path rather than try to reconcile any differences.
The Muslims who split days after the death of Mohammed found each other's doctrine wrong. They started new paths rather than try to reconcile any differences.

 

[ecco]

Where are you getting this rose-colored view of the world, past or present?

I get that from the potential of all the Messages given and not necessarily from those that say they follow those teachings.

Considering the state of the world and its recorded history, I'd have to say that the messages are not ones of peace. Just within England, wars pitted Catholics against Protestants, each side citing god and godly messages, as the rationale.

If we look back there are many that have indeed lived the required life and they become our inspiration.

Care to name some? Probably the only people who truly meet that criteria are a few obscure hermit monks.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Apples
The pagans who converted to Christianity did not do so because they reconciled differences. They did so because they abandoned their previous superstitions. The Arabs who converted to Islam did not do so because they reconciled differences. They did so because they abandoned their previous superstitions (often in the face of convert or die).

That is how the Word Teaches Itself, well done. That is this OP and that is how the Word unfolds in our hearts, we embrace the Word that is renewed, it brings a fresh impulse and direction in life.

So using the Apples, it is not hard to consider that likewise for this age, there is a Message that is directing the hearts of all humanity?

The Word becomes the longing of people's hearts, even if the source is unknown. The Word is fulfilled even if we remain unaware of its fulfillment.

To discuss this is where Doctrine takes a hit, so in this OP I will not.

I will address your Oranges in another post.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Oranges
The Christians who split off into thousands of sects, especially those who followed Luther away from Rome found the Roman doctrine to be wrong and started a new path rather than try to reconcile any differences.
The Muslims who split days after the death of Mohammed found each other's doctrine wrong. They started new paths rather than try to reconcile any differences.

This is how man replaces the Word with their own meaning, this is why God has a Covenant that we will never be left alone, we will always be guided.

It is also why as stated in the OP, if all beleiver were to return to the core values of their Faith and not argue doctrine, we all can become one. We take out what is from man and live what is from God.

You have summed up the OP with Apples and Oranges.

Thank you, Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

On another thread a post of yours read as if you wanted to wage war against the Taliban. I remember responding to it.

I am unaware of what post you talk about.

In the light of this OP we are guided towards what actions are required by the Words themself.

Christ and Muhammad have millions of followers as a proof to the power of the Word in a God given Faith to change the direction of our lives.

An example I see in this age and in line with your post is the Word of God offers that the Equality between Men and Women is the required standard, and it shall be.

If there is a people that surpress this requirement, then they are judged by it.

It is also written if an unlawful attempt is made at taking over a country, then the whole world should arise to prevent this injustice. Now consider the trouble that is in the world and how many times Nations have fallen by unlawful uprisings and invasions. The Word is the standard and we only find peace when we submit to that wisdom.

The Word is the teacher, only when we embrace the wisdom it has offered.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Faith is notoriously unreliable and justifies bad decisions.

That is not the exclusive domain of Faith, that is what it is to be human and have a choice between divine virtue and animal materialistic self tenancies.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I have no doubt there's a long list of people who think they know a God exists and that it has plans for them. That is a claim that has a LOT of burden of proof. I won't take believer testimony at face value

In the light of the OP there is not burden to prove to any person, that is not interested in investigating, Ones Faith, but to live by its guidance as an example.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

My question is why you bought their claims when you repeat them, and offer no tests in reality.

In the light of the OP I am saying God's Word teaches itself as it becomes the standard we aspire to. The affairs of the world unfold in direct proportion to our ability to put into practice what God has offered to us.

A test in reaality I could offer from my Faith is the path to peace, how or indeed will it happen? If it does, is there guidance from God as to how we must go about it?

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I can say I try hard not to fall into an argument about Doctrine, but as I write replies, I see many failures on all levels.

I guess that is because Faith has become in the eyes of many just a hypocrisy. There is a longing to show that it is not, that it can guide us, but only if we are willing to change, not just talk about change that is needed.

Thus I guess the longing of this OP is for my own self, that I start living the Word I see that has and is still changing the world.

Regards Tony

 

[F1fan]

That is not the exclusive domain of Faith

It's just a fact that religious faith is notoriously unreliable, and it's irrelevant how the faithful feel about faith as a topic. It's no good as a means for truth.

that is what it is to be human and have a choice between divine virtue and animal materialistic self tenancies.

Virtues aren't divine. I find it arrogant and selfish that some theists try to abduct sound, moral thinking as being a religious quality. There are examples of religious folks being moral, and also immoral. I suggest the temptation to believe in irrational religious concepts as an animalistic tendency as the basic reasons humans believe in religion is due to how the human brain evolved. The irony is that religion is a product of the material process of brains evolving.