True faith teaches by Itself.

[F1fan]

In the light of the OP I am saying God's Word teaches itself as it becomes the standard we aspire to.

Actually the Bible does nothing. There are people who think the Bible has something authoritative to say, and they interpret it a certain way and teach that interpretation. Some standards are good, some are bad.

The affairs of the world unfold in direct proportion to our ability to put into practice what God has offered to us.

That ranges from food kitchens to the 9-11 hijackers, so God offers a lot. I suggest we rely on our own reasoning.

A test in reaality I could offer from my Faith is the path to peace, how or indeed will it happen? If it does, is there guidance from God as to how we must go about it?

A good start is to test if God exists outside of your imagination.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

It's just a fact that religious faith is notoriously unreliable, and it's irrelevant how the faithful feel about faith as a topic. It's no good as a means for truth.

It may be the most reliable people are those that are closest to the original teachings of a faith, but people most likely do not hear of them, they are the silent hero's who's deeds and acrions talk, not the words.

Virtues aren't divine. I find it arrogant and selfish that some theists try to abduct sound, moral thinking as being a religious quality.

It will be an interesting future when we start to determine where in fact virtue and morality do come from. In this age the case has not even made it to trial, let alone give a verdict.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Actually the Bible does nothing. There are people who think the Bible has something authoritative to say, and they interpret it a certain way and teach that interpretation. Some standards are good, some are bad.


That ranges from food kitchens to the 9-11 hijackers, so God offers a lot. I suggest we rely on our own reasoning.


A good start is to test if God exists outside of your imagination.

The standard I uphold to allows you to voice those views and no matter what, I only wish you well, happy and all the best.

In this OP I am only offering that our reasoning, if it is in tune with the age we live, will be looking for remedies that have been provided.

So would you like to name an issue in the world and how you see it can be fixed and let's see if what is offered has some merit?

Regards Tony

 

[oldbadger]

I am unaware of what post you talk about.
...............................
Regards Tony

This was your reply to my post:-
oldbadger said: ↑
On another thread a post of yours read as if you wanted to wage war against the Taliban. I remember responding to it.

How soon we forget, Tony.
This is what you wrote about the Taliban on another thread about the Taliban:-

This current crisis is showing the world that we can not let tyrants rule over people. The world as a whole, should arise and squash these tyrants.

I wonder what you meant by that?

 

[oldbadger]

A test in reaality I could offer from my Faith is the path to peace, how or indeed will it happen? If it does, is there guidance from God as to how we must go about it?

Regards Tony

The Bahai remedy seems to be to squash people who hold different views to Bahai, Tony.
I really do dislike theocracies and that absolutely includes Islamic extremism, but you mentioned earlier how the Taliban invaded a country. I've always seen the invaders of Afghhanistan to be the British, The Russians, The Americans and so forth. The Taliban are Muslims who have lived in Afghanistan for many centuries, I expect.

You can't go around squashing folks.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

This was your reply to my post:-
oldbadger said: ↑
On another thread a post of yours read as if you wanted to wage war against the Taliban. I remember responding to it.

How soon we forget, Tony.
This is what you wrote about the Taliban on another thread about the Taliban:-

I wonder what you meant by that?

It means to me that the world has to decide and act upon these issues, that they as a whole decide upon, no matter what our opinions may be.

Regards Tony

 

[oldbadger]

It means to me that the world has to decide and act upon these issues, that they as a whole decide upon, no matter what our opinions may be.

Regards Tony

You showed opposing and contradicting ideas in those two posts , Tony.
The peace loving spiritual side versus the military style 'we'll squash them' side.

I've been saying this on RF for years now:-
'The Changing Faces of Bahai'.

....sorry, but there it is.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

You showed opposing and contradicting ideas in those two posts , Tony.
The peace loving spiritual side versus the military style 'we'll squash them' side.

I've been saying this on RF for years now:-
'The Changing Faces of Bahai'.

....sorry, but there it is.

Sorry OB but you have never been mislead, that is the Baha'i Message, peace by lawful means and we are not pacifists. The writings are all there to read.

I would say a vast majority of Baha'i will not carry or use a gun though. I would not, unless lawfully ordered to do so, the world it's rule and its treasures are for others that want them.

The world has so far rejected peace, so in the end a lesser peace will be built by the Nations, not the Baha'i, and they will have a universal army and a internal police forces. Baha'is may very well work in that army or in police forces.

Regards Tony

 

[oldbadger]

Sorry OB but you have never been mislead, that is the Baha'i Message, peace by lawful means and we are not pacifists. The writings are all there to read.

I would say a vast majority of Baha'i will not carry or use a gun though. I would not, unless lawfully ordered to do so, the world it's rule and its treasures are for others that want them.

The world has so far rejected peace, so in the end a lesser peace will be built by the Nations, not the Baha'i, and they will have a universal army and a internal police forces. Baha'is may very well work in that army or in police forces.

Regards Tony

Tony.......
Just now we all feel so saddened and even angry about reports that we turn on each other.
Well, you gotta snarl at somebody.
We could be 'snarl' buddies for now. ??

What our countries can do is open our doors to any and all asylum seekers from Afghanistan. They're going to have to get out by any way they can, because Kabul airport is closed to them, but we must help any who cross the borders without hesitation. Sadly we're are taking first steps back from that option...... disgusting, I think.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Tony.......
Just now we all feel so saddened and even angry about reports that we turn on each other.
Well, you gotta snarl at somebody.
We could be 'snarl' buddies for now. ??

OB, if we were having a coffee together you would see the big smile on my face while I say my reply.

No snarling here, my wife keeps asking what are you smiling at and I say OB is back prodding with his sharpened stick.

Regards Tony

 

[oldbadger]

OB, if we were having a coffee together you would see the big smile on my face while I say my reply.

No snarling here, my wife keeps asking what are you smiling at and I say OB is back prodding with his sharpened stick.

Regards Tony

Could you come a bit closer?
My prodding stick ain't long enough.

 

[F1fan]

It may be the most reliable people are those that are closest to the original teachings of a faith, but people most likely do not hear of them, they are the silent hero's who's deeds and acrions talk, not the words.

And what evidence do you have for this claim?

It will be an interesting future when we start to determine where in fact virtue and morality do come from. In this age the case has not even made it to trial, let alone give a verdict.

Well it doesn't come from religion or gods. There's a strong case that basic morality is biological and evolutionary.

 

[ecco]

That is how the Word Teaches Itself, well done. That is this OP and that is how the Word unfolds in our hearts, we embrace the Word that is renewed, it brings a fresh impulse and direction in life.

What Word? Who has been hearing this Word? Who has been spreading this Word?

So using the Apples, it is not hard to consider that likewise for this age, there is a Message that is directing the hearts of all humanity?

What Message? Who has been hearing this Message? Who has been spreading this Message?

The Word becomes the longing of people's hearts, even if the source is unknown. The Word is fulfilled even if we remain unaware of its fulfillment.

Yeah. That's a cute trick. We don't know what it is. We don't even know if it is. But it's fulfilling the longing in our hearts.

I don't think so.

In any case, you never really addressed...

The pagans who converted to Christianity did not do so because they reconciled differences. They did so because they abandoned their previous superstitions. The Arabs who converted to Islam did not do so because they reconciled differences. They did so because they abandoned their previous superstitions (often in the face of convert or die).

 

[ecco]

It is also why as stated in the OP, if all beleiver were to return to the core values of their Faith and not argue doctrine, we all can become one. We take out what is from man and live what is from God.

The keyword being "IF".
If God walks across the Atlantic hand in hand with Mīrzā Ḥosayn ʿAlī Nūrī...
If pigs could fly...
If ...
If ...
If ...

I prefer to live in reality. It makes much more sense than hoping for make-believe "ifs".

 

[F1fan]

There's a huge dilemma with using any religious belief as a means for unity because it is going to immediately ruffle the feathers of other theists. To my mind it is a better approach to use practical reasons for unity. If you appeal to how unity can benefit the average person in practical ways, including letting them have their personal meaning, then there won't be some issue to disagree.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Could you come a bit closer?
My prodding stick ain't long enough.

It is long enough OB, I am only human and I was at one time very fast to explode.

Now I am a marshmallow, put me near fire I get hot, cook for a while then melt.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

And what evidence do you have for this claim?

That is a lazy response. That is something you must look for.

Well it doesn't come from religion or gods. There's a strong case that basic morality is biological and evolutionary.

That is a view you can have, Faith tells me the source and it is logical to consider faith in a higher power, then our own self, that brings moral and virtue from us, as it does require suppression of animalistic tendancies for us to live as a virtuous and moral society.

So we will have to agree to disagree on that one. Regards Tony

 

[F1fan]

That is a lazy response. That is something you must look for.

LOL, irony at work.

The truth is you made a lazy claim and I asked to you back it up.

That is a view you can have, Faith tells me the source and it is logical to consider faith in a higher power, then our own self, that brings moral and virtue from us, as it does require suppression of animalistic tendancies for us to live as a virtuous and moral society.

As noted, faith is unreliable. Higher powers aren't known to exist. The motive to believe in religious ideas IS a result of our primitive brain, our emotion centers.

I suggest work on your reasoning skill.

So we will have to agree to disagree on that one. Regards Tony

If you want global unity you're going to have to be willing to admit error and answer questions. I've seen numerous Bahia folks on here and they are notably over-confident and don't do well in debate. The dilemma of having all the answers that someone else came up with is having to defend them if you insist they are true.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

What Word? Who has been hearing this Word? Who has been spreading this Word?

Well that is what Faith is all about, it is about finding who we are and what motivates us in life. When we find those answers for our own self, you answer your next point.

In any case, you never really addressed...

The pagans who converted to Christianity did not do so because they reconciled differences. They did so because they abandoned their previous superstitions. The Arabs who converted to Islam did not do so because they reconciled differences. They did so because they abandoned their previous superstitions (often in the face of convert or die).

What did they find that allowed them to disperse with their previous superstition?

You have the answer that True Faith teaches itself, people find and embrace what has been offered.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

The keyword being "IF".
If God walks across the Atlantic hand in hand with Mīrzā Ḥosayn ʿAlī Nūrī...
If pigs could fly...
If ...
If ...
If ...

I prefer to live in reality. It makes much more sense than hoping for make-believe "ifs".

The if is for you to decide and as you know, we are happy to walk this life side by side with those ifs, we can live in peace with them.

To me there are many that have walked this earth in the light that also shone from Mīrzā Ḥusayn ʿAlī Nūrī and that is the OP, their given faiths teach by themselves, they do not need us to accept, the principle they are built upon, become the standards we aspire to.

Regards Tony