True Liberty Requires Submission.

[TransmutingSoul]

This post is founded on my understanding of these passage found in the Baha'i Writings.

"True liberty consisteth in man's submission unto My commandments, little as ye know it." Bahá’u’lláh, Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 335

It is obvious that humanity at the current time will not choose this option, so the important thing to note in this OP is that this in not directed at the Baha'i Faith, but at a conversation as to what is a productive and useful "Liberty".

It is observable that humanity already uses submission as a tool in liberated societies, as there needs to be a basic structure of law that gives boundaries to Liberty, as Liberty is also a path to destruction.

This is thought on this other aspect of liberty.

"Liberty must, in the end, lead to sedition, whose flames none can quench. Thus warneth you He Who is the Reckoner, the All-Knowing." Bahá’u’lláh, Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 335-336

We can see evidence of this in the world news.

This link is to other quotes on both freedom and liberty.

Freedom | Bahá’í Quotes

Your Thoughts?

Regards Tony

 

[Nakosis]

This post is founded on my understanding of these passage found in the Baha'i Writings.

"True liberty consisteth in man's submission unto My commandments, little as ye know it." Bahá’u’lláh, Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 335

It is obvious that humanity at the current time will not choose this option, so the important thing to note in this OP is that this in not directed at the Baha'i Faith, but at a conversation as to what is a productive and useful "Liberty".

It is observable that humanity already uses submission as a tool in liberated societies, as there needs to be a basic structure of law that gives boundaries to Liberty, as Liberty is also a path to destruction.

This is thought on this other aspect of liberty.

"Liberty must, in the end, lead to sedition, whose flames none can quench. Thus warneth you He Who is the Reckoner, the All-Knowing." Bahá’u’lláh, Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 335-336

We can see evidence of this in the world news.

This link is to other quotes on both freedom and liberty.

Freedom | Bahá’í Quotes

Your Thoughts?

Regards Tony

So, what are these commandments?

 

[The Hammer]

This post is founded on my understanding of these passage found in the Baha'i Writings.

"True liberty consisteth in man's submission unto My commandments, little as ye know it." Bahá’u’lláh, Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 335

It is obvious that humanity at the current time will not choose this option, so the important thing to note in this OP is that this in not directed at the Baha'i Faith, but at a conversation as to what is a productive and useful "Liberty".

It is observable that humanity already uses submission as a tool in liberated societies, as there needs to be a basic structure of law that gives boundaries to Liberty, as Liberty is also a path to destruction.

This is thought on this other aspect of liberty.

"Liberty must, in the end, lead to sedition, whose flames none can quench. Thus warneth you He Who is the Reckoner, the All-Knowing." Bahá’u’lláh, Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 335-336

We can see evidence of this in the world news.

This link is to other quotes on both freedom and liberty.

Freedom | Bahá’í Quotes

Your Thoughts?

Regards Tony

I would say that "True Liberty" or Freedom, requires submission to the Self. This doesn't mean succumbing to ones basal desires, but in a higher ordered, top down version of caring for ones spiritual, mental and physical needs.

With this framework established, it allows one to step outside of the Self, so that one may better take care of Others.

 

[Valjean]

"Freedom is slavery."
Where have I heard that before?

 

[Twilight Hue]

This post is founded on my understanding of these passage found in the Baha'i Writings.

"True liberty consisteth in man's submission unto My commandments, little as ye know it." Bahá’u’lláh, Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 335

It is obvious that humanity at the current time will not choose this option, so the important thing to note in this OP is that this in not directed at the Baha'i Faith, but at a conversation as to what is a productive and useful "Liberty".

It is observable that humanity already uses submission as a tool in liberated societies, as there needs to be a basic structure of law that gives boundaries to Liberty, as Liberty is also a path to destruction.

This is thought on this other aspect of liberty.

"Liberty must, in the end, lead to sedition, whose flames none can quench. Thus warneth you He Who is the Reckoner, the All-Knowing." Bahá’u’lláh, Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 335-336

We can see evidence of this in the world news.

This link is to other quotes on both freedom and liberty.

Freedom | Bahá’í Quotes

Your Thoughts?

Regards Tony

Only applies for those making others submit to their whims.

Overseers are the only ones with true freedom. Not the subjugated.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

So, what are these commandments?

The greatest commands are found in all Faiths, the greatest is the Commandment to Love all peoples.

This is a list given by Baha'u'llah

"Be generous in prosperity, and thankful in adversity. Be worthy of the trust of thy neighbor, and look upon him with a bright and friendly face. Be a treasure to the poor, an admonisher to the rich, an answerer of the cry of the needy, a preserver of the sanctity of thy pledge. Be fair in thy judgment, and guarded in thy speech. Be unjust to no man, and show all meekness to all men. Be as a lamp unto them that walk in darkness, a joy to the sorrowful, a sea for the thirsty, a haven for the distressed, an upholder and defender of the victim of oppression. Let integrity and uprightness distinguish all thine acts. Be a home for the stranger, a balm to the suffering, a tower of strength for the fugitive. Be eyes to the blind, and a guiding light unto the feet of the erring. Be an ornament to the countenance of truth, a crown to the brow of fidelity, a pillar of the temple of righteousness, a breath of life to the body of mankind, an ensign of the hosts of justice, a luminary above the horizon of virtue, a dew to the soil of the human heart, an ark on the ocean of knowledge, a sun in the heaven of bounty, a gem on the diadem of wisdom, a shining light in the firmament of thy generation, a fruit upon the tree of humility."

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I would say that "True Liberty" or Freedom, requires submission to the Self. This doesn't mean succumbing to ones basal desires, but in a higher ordered, top down version of caring for ones spiritual, mental and physical needs.

With this framework established, it allows one to step outside of the Self, so that one may better take care of Others.

So world we then consider who is to set what is seen as a base desires, the lines that cannot be crossed!

Would that be a logical step?

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Only applies for those making others submit to their whims.

Overseers are the only ones with true freedom. Not the subjugated.

Would not good individual overseers be subject to the same levels of submission as all others?

In the process of judging on law, is there not a jury of peers, and the judge is not above the law.

Regards Tony

 

[Audie]

We are taught that without
responsibility, freedom means nothing.

 

[Wildswanderer]

5 For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery.
Freedom is living by the Holy Spirit not by a law that only influences behavior.

 

[England my lionheart]

This post is founded on my understanding of these passage found in the Baha'i Writings.

"True liberty consisteth in man's submission unto My commandments, little as ye know it." Bahá’u’lláh, Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 335

It is obvious that humanity at the current time will not choose this option, so the important thing to note in this OP is that this in not directed at the Baha'i Faith, but at a conversation as to what is a productive and useful "Liberty".

It is observable that humanity already uses submission as a tool in liberated societies, as there needs to be a basic structure of law that gives boundaries to Liberty, as Liberty is also a path to destruction.

This is thought on this other aspect of liberty.

"Liberty must, in the end, lead to sedition, whose flames none can quench. Thus warneth you He Who is the Reckoner, the All-Knowing." Bahá’u’lláh, Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 335-336

We can see evidence of this in the world news.

This link is to other quotes on both freedom and liberty.

Freedom | Bahá’í Quotes

Your Thoughts?

Regards Tony

Submit and prostrate yourself,there are millions doing that but......oh well maybe time for a new plan.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Would not good individual overseers be subject to the same levels of submission as all others?

In the process of judging on law, is there not a jury of peers, and the judge is not above the law.

Regards Tony

It's nice in a philosophical context, but reality rarely if ever, shows that in real life.

 

[1-Brother James]

This post is founded on my understanding of these passage found in the Baha'i Writings.

"True liberty consisteth in man's submission unto My commandments, little as ye know it." Bahá’u’lláh, Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 335

It is obvious that humanity at the current time will not choose this option, so the important thing to note in this OP is that this in not directed at the Baha'i Faith, but at a conversation as to what is a productive and useful "Liberty".

It is observable that humanity already uses submission as a tool in liberated societies, as there needs to be a basic structure of law that gives boundaries to Liberty, as Liberty is also a path to destruction.

This is thought on this other aspect of liberty.

"Liberty must, in the end, lead to sedition, whose flames none can quench. Thus warneth you He Who is the Reckoner, the All-Knowing." Bahá’u’lláh, Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 335-336

We can see evidence of this in the world news.

This link is to other quotes on both freedom and liberty.

Freedom | Bahá’í Quotes

Your Thoughts?

Regards Tony

It would seem to me that a person is free to do virtually all that this physical plane supports. But is this "freedom" from life, or merely freedom to do life? Freedom from this existence is normally thought to be death, but can the Soul die?
Liberty is perhaps the ability to do what one wants, within the confines of the law, or pay the consequences.
But freedom is quite another thing. A Soul is not truly free until it merges back into its Source... which is also the Purpose of Life. Peace

 

[danieldemol]

My thoughts are that Baha'i submission in the unlikely event that it would ever become accepted by the majority of humans would most probably deny non-believers a vote, which is not the foundation of just society.

In my opinion.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Submit and prostrate yourself,there are millions doing that but......oh well maybe time for a new plan.

How do you contain Liberty, without our submission?

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

My thoughts are that Baha'i submission in the unlikely event that it would ever become accepted by the majority of humans would most probably deny non-believers a vote, which is not the foundation of just society.

In my opinion.

This was not about Baha'i submission, as noted in the OP.

It was about Liberty in the free world, how do we contain its negative influences?

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Liberty is perhaps the ability to do what one wants, within the Law

Yes that is what the OP is about.

So how doe we get to implement laws that are applicable to all humanity, is it possible that peace can happen without all Nations deciding upon the laws that will give us boundaries of Liberty?

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

It's nice in a philosophical context, but reality rarely if ever, shows that in real life.

Do we not have the chance to now change that? We have now witnesses what unbridled liberty along with Nationalism and materialism has produced.

Regards Tony

 

[danieldemol]

This was not about Baha'i submission, as noted in the OP.

It was about Liberty in the free world, how do we contain its negative influences?

Regards Tony

Submission to Baha'u'llah's commandments is very much Baha'i submission, perhaps you accidentally included this quote in your OP;
"True liberty consisteth in man's submission unto My commandments"~Baha'u'llah?

As for liberty in the free world, the law of the land based on rational legal processes seems sufficient. I don't see commandments as having anything to do with it.

In my opinion.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

5 For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery.
Freedom is living by the Holy Spirit not by a law that only influences behavior.

What has liberal though brought to Christain thinking? Do you see it has all been beneficial.

What about "Prosperity Gospel", is that freedom?

I agree with you 100% that the Spirit can set us free, but I personally I see it can also be used to bind us to this world.

Regards Tony