True Liberty Requires Submission.

[Evangelicalhumanist]

What is the gauge that is being used by those 'Responsible Persons'?

Is it the laws already implemented?

Regards Tony

The simplest gauge of all -- myself and how I would like to be treated. What I want for myself, I hold myself responsible for giving others. There's really nothing easier.

And you know this: the "Golden Rule" shows up in most religions. I am not a fan of the version that says "do unto others what you would have done unto you." Rather, my preference is for a version more like, "don't do to others what you wouldn't want done to you." Some people think there's no difference, but I've no doubt you could examine the two versions and understand why I prefer the second.

 

[rational experiences]

Father's man human spiritual just men conscious wArning.

Stephen Haw King father's spirit leaving along with every single sacrificed man's life cell.

Together conscious unified teaching.

New. Modern. After Russia's star fall.

Updated.

So the man of science a kinder male says time to ignore religious warnings. Science new men own the advice exact.

As origin man. Kind caring man was science advised by star fall irradiation as many men.

Many men own the consensus.

Sciences new machine thesis extreme cold held heavenly constant. By invention. Was wanted to be caused invented. So he did.

Brothers warning life only evolved in balances meaning cell healing in a blue light balanced sky.

As evolution for a human is cellular future body replaced human. Evolution not real. Meaning of evolution natural balances cell life continuance.

Was trying to express it in multi unified theses it wasn't correlated to exact reasons why all the formats were reviewed.

The argument new so stop arguing evolution the position moot.

Start arguing for the rights of life only.

As liberty means freedom. Free will to live work mutually caring balanced sharing with no greed. Everyone owning exactly third human place. Needed.

It means no feeling left out or lonely or in despair. As family rights reassert family conditions. If you don't know how to parent join organisations to learn.

If the human is seen inept make them join and learn. As brain entrainment once was a social law. To overcome bad skills inherited.

What organisation in human community is meant to support human life's healing. It's foundations.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

The simplest gauge of all -- myself and how I would like to be treated. What I want for myself, I hold myself responsible for giving others. There's really nothing easier.

And you know this: the "Golden Rule" shows up in most religions. I am not a fan of the version that says "do unto others what you would have done unto you." Rather, my preference is for a version more like, "don't do to others what you wouldn't want done to you." Some people think there's no difference, but I've no doubt you could examine the two versions and understand why I prefer the second.

So were those core values you use, were they gained from your nature and nurture? Parents, grandparents? Education?

Regards Tony

 

[Revoltingest]

Well, I agree (as usual, to an extent). And sometimes, you have to fight for it -- and I mean that literally. As a gay boy in high school, I certainly had to (this was in the early 1960s). Fortunately, I'm well over 6 feet, and if anybody thought I was some sort of "Nancy-boy" who would back down at the first showing of a "real-man's" fist -- well, they learned fairly quickly that was not so.

But you are a Nancy boy...just a big'n.

 

[Revoltingest]

Do you have an example of that liberty and its value for all humanity?

Regards Tony

One of my favorite examples is recording cops.
It's legal. It's essential for accountability.
But it provokes cops. They often retaliate,
sometimes brutally. But this right is becoming
more known because of the assertion of auditors
posting their work on youtube & in the news.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

So were those core values you use, were they gained from your nature and nurture? Parents, grandparents? Education?

Regards Tony

i was a battered child, badly abused and spent years in my childhood in a place in Ottawa for a few of Canada's most disturbed kids. I know with great clarity what I don't want for me, and I know with the same clarity that I do not want it for anyone else.

 

[rational experiences]

Father said man of old said to his owned self. I am a hypocrite.

So he said if I am to be a responsible father I won't have sex.

As babies inherit the sin science caused as damaged genetics.

He wasn't lying.

He was rich. So he used his riches to serve the poor. He didn't preach science. The book was shut.

He taught God as philosophy. He tried to assist healing. Don't believe in science it's Satanism.

On a shut book.

He taught God.

Reason irradiated brains began scientific thesis.

He had to teach schooling as God so man's mind would be overcome of his self destructive thinking conditions.

One of which is to thesis ownership of cosmic owned creation.

So he taught God in school not science. As humans consciousness needed to be reminded man's science sacrificed human life.

Of course the teaching methodology was lost. As greed and science took back control. The teacher was gone out of human consciousness. As we got irradiated again 1000 years later. Then Russia.

The exact reason sacrifice of life was taught as science had caused it.

We however were only since surviving. So being saved has a very different meaning. Survival only.

Reasoned the star falling keeps returning.

Organisation had to teach an evolving mind behaviour.

Science was for invention. And science studied earth for resources.

In the beginning was a review of a humans scientific thesis only.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

i was a battered child, badly abused and spent years in my childhood in a place in Ottawa for a few of Canada's most disturbed kids. I know with great clarity what I don't want for me, and I know with the same clarity that I do not want it for anyone else.

There is not much that can be offered but to say well done for finding your way through all that with that clarity.

Regards Tony

 

[Nakosis]

So would you see this as submission to a higher path, a choice we can make?

How can we enable others to consider those choices?

Regards Tony

A submission to a mentor is usually necessary because of ignorance.
We have to seek the enlighten to become enlighten, to submit ourselves to their teaching.
Unfortunately we can only assume it to be the higher path.

You submit to learn but you have to validate to master.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

A submission to a mentor is usually necessary because of ignorance.
We have to seek the enlighten to become enlighten, to submit ourselves to their teaching.
Unfortunately we can only assume it to be the higher path.

You submit to learn but you have to validate to master.

I see that is sound reasoning.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

We are taught that without
responsibility, freedom means nothing.

Yes indeed. Do you see that responsibiliy includes boundaries to Liberty?

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

As liberty means freedom. Free will to live work mutually caring balanced sharing with no greed. Everyone owning exactly third human place. Needed.

If the human is seen inept make them join and learn. As brain entrainment once was a social law. To overcome bad skills inherited.

I see a balance in those two thoughts, those two quotes are what the OP is asking.

On one hand we have Liberty, on the other hand the need to implement Laws and enforce them.

Anarchy is to be guarded against, as unbridled Liberty breeds anarchist mindsets.

Regards Tony

 

[Revoltingest]

Yes indeed. Do you see that responsibiliy includes boundaries to Liberty?

If those boundaries aren't tested, then authority
closes in, & liberty is reduced. So maintaining
liberty also requires the opposite of submission.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

If those boundaries aren't tested, then authority
closes in, & liberty is reduced. So maintaining
liberty also requires the opposite of submission.

Another way we can consider to think about that, is that to find the true beauty of Liberty, then a balance in submission is required.

I think it is observable, especially in Nations that pride themselves on Liberty, that anarchy is produced from unbridled Liberty, a level of self control is needed, laws can be set.

Regards Tony

 

[Revoltingest]

Another way we can consider to think about that, is that to find the true beauty of Liberty, then a balance in submission is required.

I think it is observable, especially in Nations that pride themselves on Liberty, that anarchy is produced from unbridled Liberty, a level of self control is needed, laws can be set.

Regards Tony

It seems obvious that everyone wants some balance
between liberty & control imposed. This is only achieved
with both submission & limitations on authority, ie to test
the boundaries.

 

[Bird123]

So what O am seeing in your post you are offering that global enlightenment will bring us to a state of perfection, where we will not need to submit to any laws?

Why do you think Jesus the Christ submitted to the cross, if that was not an example of true liberty?

Let's look at this verses, as I see that is where you base your reply.

Romans 10:4
"For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes."

Then what do we consider with this verse?

Matthew 5:17
“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them".

Is there anytime we are not living under the Law of Christ, when we are in Christ, do we not also submit to the Law given to Jesus? Is that not the Liberty you are offering.

That is the Liberty I see in the first quote I used as an example in this OP.

Regards Tony

Understanding has never ever been about believing. It's about Learning, Growing, Discovering, then Knowing.

God hasn't given anyone Laws to follow. It's about what IS. God will teach all His children through their own free choices.

Freely choose ; God's children, in time, will Understand exactly what those choices and actions mean. Each will decide for themselves.

God is not going to tell or command anyone how to think, choose or act. When those actions return, kiddies Learn. When one Understands all sides, Intelligence will make the Best choices. Yes, in time, we will all be Intelligent with Great Wisdom!!

Few people really Understand God at all. This world and universe is not for God. It is for US. The time-based causal nature of the universe is Perfect for Learning. People think it's all about God, however God is Unconditional. To God, It's all about US!!

It is so Simple and Intelligent. There is never a need to value the petty things that mankind holds so dear like judging, condemning, hating, we against they, blaming, controlling, ruling, intimidating, coercing, greed, anger, wrath and so on and so on. When one really Understands these things, one Discovers they are no longer needed because they do not bring the Best results. Eliminate these petty things and Unconditional Love is what will remain.

You know, believing has never ever been what it's all about. Each will Learn and Grow regardless of any belief. Believing has never ever been important to God.

God's Greatest moment is when that light bulb goes off one of His children's head and they Understand. This can be about any subject at all. I think we are all capable of that. Let's let it Shine!!

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[rational experiences]

I see a balance in those two thoughts, those two quotes are what the OP is asking.

On one hand we have Liberty, on the other hand the need to implement Laws and enforce them.

Anarchy is to be guarded against, as unbridled Liberty breeds anarchist mindsets.

Regards Tony

Every human owns needs. We all know respect is needed. We know we haven't been respected which has caused family disunity. It's not difficult to bring basic human concepts to any type of human reasoning.

To teach family was caused to begin new life in a civilisation on slavery was a true teaching. As stated only particular reasons were involved in reasoning why human conscious family had changed.

When the full story is told which is only first natural. A natural consciousness only references the information. Bible.

Too many have read the advice as verbatim.

The correlation claimed legality as a lot of men had in fact been witness to the same circumstance.

So a legal document being the shut bible was correlated to enact new social laws.

Actually.

As many authors have stated the bible had been correlated from a multi witnessed same human experience. Hurt life. Many books.

So it's not exact at all.

Natural life is exact only......as you have to be present a human to live a choice or an experience.

What a teacher meant. New advice. New ability in self life to review advice and teach a better story for family.

As it's not about science. It was about human families past and present life abuse. Legal.

 

[osgart]

This post is founded on my understanding of these passage found in the Baha'i Writings.

"True liberty consisteth in man's submission unto My commandments, little as ye know it." Bahá’u’lláh, Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 335

It is obvious that humanity at the current time will not choose this option, so the important thing to note in this OP is that this in not directed at the Baha'i Faith, but at a conversation as to what is a productive and useful "Liberty".

It is observable that humanity already uses submission as a tool in liberated societies, as there needs to be a basic structure of law that gives boundaries to Liberty, as Liberty is also a path to destruction.

This is thought on this other aspect of liberty.

"Liberty must, in the end, lead to sedition, whose flames none can quench. Thus warneth you He Who is the Reckoner, the All-Knowing." Bahá’u’lláh, Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 335-336

We can see evidence of this in the world news.

This link is to other quotes on both freedom and liberty.

Freedom | Bahá’í Quotes

Your Thoughts?

Regards Tony

Freedom to do as one pleases isn't good at all if the heart ain't right, peaceful, and honorable.

Each generation is faced with a choice to build on the successes of past generations, or do their own thing. At this time people are testing morality to the utmost. We've never had so much liberty as we do now. This liberty we have now is decadent. People don't seem to want families as much as before. When people are lax with their morals, then the worst people are emboldened to take power.

Decadence is probably the fastest way to lose liberty. Authoritarians seize the opportunity to take power and control when people are lax.

If people are not honorable then it's tougher to find a suitable mate, and the family system erodes. Genuine liberty is moral and supports a family structure.

The nature of reality is such a circumstance that they'll never be total, absolute freedom. A person has to choose carefully what kind of freedom is acceptable, worthwhile, and indispensable.

Insatiable desire, will over time destroy liberty.

I'm far from convinced that humanity as a whole can ever rule their passions, and lusts. Everyone talks about equality, and liberty, but really it's about power and control. A just power vs. corrupt power.

Humans are from the animal world. So liberty has to take into account the animal nature. The civil nature is more a dream of the oppressed, and those who appreciate what it's like to not have, or be under tyranny.

The American Constitution was designed specifically to limit corrupt power.

Humanity has to prove that it has the potential to be civil, and defend that civility. That's always a fight with the animal nature.

 

[PureX]

I agree that "true liberty" has to be gained through collective equanimity, and that it cannot be gained via the subjugation of others. And the reason I say this is because even the subjugation of others is a form of dependency. And dependency is not freedom.

We humans will always be somewhat dependent upon each other, as that is the nature of the human species. But we can choose to share that dependency equitably, and thereby lessen the burden of it to the greatest degree for all.

 

[Aupmanyav]

"True liberty consisteth in man's submission unto My commandments, little as ye know it."

I submit only to the law of my country, otherwise I hate this word - Submission, no back-bone.