Trump 2024. Why or why not.

[Kathryn]

So your criticism of Biden is that he's old and white, and that's what makes him inadequate?

What does that mean? He ran for the office and was elected. You don't seem to have any relevant, specific complaint about Biden beyond old and white.

He's old, white, and probably senile. He is inconsistent and has been in politics for decades. He lies and makes inappropriate comments often. I don't care for him or for Trump. who is also probably too old to be President.

I stated the quote about Biden "deserving" to become President because I heard it so often during his campaign, by the way.

 

[JIMMY12345]

Do you support Donald Trump for president in 2024? Why, or why not?

Trump is popular with 40% of USA (Immigration and a promise to bring back jobs to USA ignoring wages are cheaper elsewhere and USA is losing the race in being the technological leader). I think he will win.However his Achilles heel is internationally he is seen as Putin's sidekick eg Ukraine.

Also his support is the evangelical right.However they are not really pro life eg step up international aid to stop babies die.They do not really care.Step up morality - again they do not care divorce even repeated is not an issue for the "moral evangelical movement"

 

[metis]

He's old, white, and probably senile... He lies and makes inappropriate comments often.

I do think you're conflating Biden with Trump.

 

[metis]

Trump is popular with 40% of USA (Immigration and a promise to bring back jobs to USA ignoring wages are cheaper elsewhere and USA is losing the race in being the technological leader).

There's many more jobs being created under Biden than there ever was under Trump, and our economy is booming.

 

[Laniakea]

Trump 2024? Why or why not? The record, look at his record:

I alone can fix it!

"I will eliminate the debt." Added $7.8 trillion to it.

"I will speedily reduce the trade deficit." Trade deficit increased by 26.4% (Public Citizen)

"I will be the greatest jobs President God ever created." Worst jobs record since Hoover (Fortune)

"I will be working too hard for you to go golfing." Spent almost 1 year of 4 golfing on his own resorts.

"I will reverse and repeal Obama Care on day one." Still waiting.

"It's 15 people, and soon it'll be down to zero." Stopped counting in June 2023, when it was 1,134,641 deaths, and counting.

Lots of citations needed.

 

[Laniakea]

Two old white guys. Time for a change. Biden never did "deserve" the Presidency and I can't stand Trump so there's all that.

Ageism and racism?
Is that what votes are based on now?

 

[metis]

Lots of citations needed.

You doing actual and objective research is needed.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

Lots of citations needed.

That was a response to:

"I will eliminate the debt." Added $7.8 trillion to it.
"I will speedily reduce the trade deficit." Trade deficit increased by 26.4% (Public Citizen)
"I will be the greatest jobs President God ever created." Worst jobs record since Hoover (Fortune)
"I will be working too hard for you to go golfing." Spent almost 1 year of 4 golfing on his own resorts.
"I will reverse and repeal Obama Care on day one." Still waiting.
"It's 15 people, and soon it'll be down to zero." Stopped counting in June 2023, when it was 1,134,641 deaths, and counting.

Informed Americans know that Trump said those things and failed to produce. We can add, "I'm too rich to be corrupted" (two lies in one), "I'd release my taxes but I'm being audited" (two more lies) and "My infrastructure package is two weeks away."

If you still don't know these things at this late date, then that is because you don't want to know them. If you were a teenager or a foreigner uninterested in American politics or there was only one of these items that you were unaware of, then there would be reason to support one or two of the claims above for you. But experienced RF poster can recognize when a person is actively trying to create his own reality, and there is never any value in trying to correct that.

It's like somebody saying that there was no insurrection or that the Bible contains no errors of fact or internal contradictions and asking for evidence to the contrary from those who disagree. That would also be pointless if one's purpose is to educate the one calling for the evidence. It's understood in advance that he doesn't use evidence to come to his conclusions and is unlikely to look at whatever you provide, so providing some won't help him, although such evidence might be of interest to others reading along.

 

[Laniakea]

You doing actual and objective research is needed.

Sorry, but if you're going to make multiple assertions, it's upon you to provide the evidence. That's what it means to have honest and constructive debate.

 

[Laniakea]

That was a response to:

"I will eliminate the debt." Added $7.8 trillion to it.
"I will speedily reduce the trade deficit." Trade deficit increased by 26.4% (Public Citizen)
"I will be the greatest jobs President God ever created." Worst jobs record since Hoover (Fortune)
"I will be working too hard for you to go golfing." Spent almost 1 year of 4 golfing on his own resorts.
"I will reverse and repeal Obama Care on day one." Still waiting.
"It's 15 people, and soon it'll be down to zero." Stopped counting in June 2023, when it was 1,134,641 deaths, and counting.

Informed Americans know that Trump said those things and failed to produce. We can add, "I'm too rich to be corrupted" (two lies in one), "I'd release my taxes but I'm being audited" (two more lies) and "My infrastructure package is two weeks away."

If you still don't know these things at this late date, then that is because you don't want to know them. If you were a teenager or a foreigner uninterested in American politics or there was only one of these items that you were unaware of, then there would be reason to support one or two of the claims above for you. But experienced RF poster can recognize when a person is actively trying to create his own reality, and there is never any value in trying to correct that.

It's like somebody saying that there was no insurrection or that the Bible contains no errors of fact or internal contradictions and asking for evidence to the contrary from those who disagree. That would also be pointless if one's purpose is to educate the one calling for the evidence. It's understood in advance that he doesn't use evidence to come to his conclusions and is unlikely to look at whatever you provide, so providing some won't help him, although such evidence might be of interest to others reading along.

See previous post.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

if you're going to make multiple assertions, it's upon you to provide the evidence.

Only if one wants to be believed by other critical thinkers. There is no burden of "proof" when dealing with confirmation bias or anybody that doesn't understand and respect the principles of critical thinking.

That's what it means to have honest and constructive debate.

It takes two or more good faith disputants cooperatively employing the methods of critical thinking to have that. As soon as one's collocutor is discovered to be blind to evidence, doesn't attempt to falsify but instead waves off arguments if he acknowledges them all, repeats already rebutted claims unchanged, can't construct a sound, evidenced argument or recognize one when he sees it, doesn't have the necessary education to understand what he is reading, and the like, the debate is over. Debate ends with the last plausible, unrebutted claim, which often the second post, the first one following the original claim.

Now look at your response to my post above again. That describes what you did. You acknowledged nothing that I wrote to you and deflected to something irrelevant to my post. Debate ended with my post. You made a claim, I rebutted it, and that was the end of dialectic. Given that fact and the fact that you claim to need evidence for the list EvangelicalHumanist created, I can see that there will be no value to you in anything I post to you including this post.

 

[The Hammer]

That's a "no" for me. "No" for Biden, as well. Lonely world for the independent thinkers.

.what makes an independent thinker unable to vote for Biden?

 

[Laniakea]

Only if one wants to be believed by other critical thinkers. There is no burden of "proof" when dealing with confirmation bias or anybody that doesn't understand and respect the principles of critical thinking.

It takes two or more good faith disputants cooperatively employing the methods of critical thinking to have that. As soon as one's collocutor is discovered to be blind to evidence, doesn't attempt to falsify but instead waves off arguments if he acknowledges them all, repeats already rebutted claims unchanged, can construct a sound, evidenced argument or recognize one when he sees it, doesn't have the necessary education to understand what he is reading, and the like, the debate is over. Debate ends with the last plausible, unrebutted claim, which often the second post, the first one following the original claim.

Now look at your response to my post above again. That describes what you did. You acknowledged nothing that I wrote to you and deflected to something irrelevant to my post. Debate ended with my post. You made a claim, I rebutted it, and that was the end of dialectic. Given that fact and the fact that you claim to need evidence for the list EvagelicHumanist created, I can see that there will be no value to you in anything I post to you including this post.

When someone makes multiple assertions and then refuses to provide any evidence to back up any of the claims when asked, then that someone doesn't deserve my attention any longer. They've proven themselves to not be an honest debater.

 

[Unfettered]

.what makes an independent thinker unable to vote for Biden?

I should have qualified my first post with "this independent thinker" instead of "the independent thinkers." I only speak for myself, of course. And, in short, I can't vote for Biden because he doesn't secure the rights of the people equitably.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

When someone makes multiple assertions and then refuses to provide any evidence to back up any of the claims when asked, then that someone doesn't deserve my attention any longer. They've proven themselves to not be an honest debater.

How about you? Are you an honest debater? Not with me you're not. Once again, there is no evidence that you read what I wrote to you. If you read any of it, you probably skimmed a few words. But that doesn't mean that there is no value to me or others to continue answering your pots. It only means that there is no value to YOU in those replies. It appears that you don't even look at them.

I can't vote for Biden because he doesn't secure the rights of the people equitably.

Is that really a good enough reason to not vote for Biden? Barring some event like the death of either Biden or Trump before election day, one of them will be declared president this fall. If you have no preference, there is no reason to vote for either, but if you do and your preference is for Biden, your objection shouldn't prevent you from voting for him. If it does, you've helped Trump half as much as if you'd voted for him.

 

[Unfettered]

Is that really a good enough reason to not vote for Biden?

It's a good enough reason to not vote for anyone.

If I were running for president, or for Congress, or for some local position, and you discerned that I would abuse some citizens in some way and favor others in some other way, would you vote for me, knowing that with your vote you assent to the abuse and the favoritism?

Barring some event like the death of either Biden or Trump before election day, one of them will be declared president this fall. If you have no preference, there is no reason to vote for either, but if you do and your preference is for Biden, your objection shouldn't prevent you from voting for him. If it does, you've helped Trump half as much as if you'd voted for him.

I have a preference against both of them.

And a vote for is a vote for. If either of them is elected, it won't be because I voted for someone other than either of them, it will be because others voted for whomever won.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

I have a preference against both of them.

It sounds like you're doing the right thing sitting the election out. Others who do have a preference will decide who your president will be.

 

[Unfettered]

It sounds like you're doing the right thing sitting the election out. Others who do have a preference will decide who your president will be.

I'm not sitting the election out.

 

[metis]

Sorry, but if you're going to make multiple assertions, it's upon you to provide the evidence. That's what it means to have honest and constructive debate.

It doesn't matter what anyone posts with evidence for you unless you agree with it.

 

[anna.]

There's many more jobs being created under Biden than there ever was under Trump, and our economy is booming.