Trump Admits that He Fired Comey Because of Russia

[It Aint Necessarily So]

I could care less what happens to Trump or anyone else on earth because I know for a fact they're all going to be destroyed and burned up with hot molten lava on the day of the Lord that will happen soon.

That's beautiful. I see a Hallmark card there.

Did you like my apocalypse jokes? You must have.

I'm guessing that you were a Hot Lips fan, but that your favorite M*A*S*H character was Major Burns.

 

[Stevicus]

I seem to recall a lot of concern over the influence of money on elections. It's not like Citizens United was a bipartisan event or went without comment. There's also regularly been calls for publicly funded elections.

It's not just a matter of money; it's a matter of being able to influence elections using media. If the goal here is to ensure that the electorate is completely uninfluenced by outside ideas or media moguls, then the media itself will have to be more tightly controlled.

 

[Stevicus]

It depends. If Trump colluded or worked with the Russians and lied about it repeatedly, that is an impeachable offense, as it is a crime. Simple as that. Doesn't matter whether you think it's OK for a presidential candidate to work with our enemy to influence our election. It's illegal.

And if there's proof of this, I would agree with you. But since there's no proof, it's all just speculation at this point.

And, more importantly, if it really is confirmed that Trump fired Comey to relieve pressure from the Russia investigation, that is obstruction of justice. Also an impeachable offense. So, only time will tell. But, these are serious crimes that should kick any president out of office if true.

Again, it's a lot of "ifs" without any real solid evidence.

 

[eldios]

That's beautiful. I see a Hallmark card there.

Did you like my apocalypse jokes? You must have.

I'm guessing that you were a Hot Lips fan, but that your favorite M*A*S*H character was Major Burns.

There are many comedians in the world but I don't think some of them are very funny. However, a few of them make me laugh loudly ( LOL !!!! ).

 

[leibowde84]

And if there's proof of this, I would agree with you. But since there's no proof, it's all just speculation at this point.



Again, it's a lot of "ifs" without any real solid evidence.

The criminal investigation is brand new. It often takes years for indictments to be handed down in Federal cases. They aren't going to indict Trump unless they have extremely solid evidence. So, it's going to take time. This is not going to go away for quite some time. Most likely it will be in the background of Trump's entire presidency.

And, Trump has really been hurting his own credibility lately, contradicting his surrogates at practically every turn, giving highly classified secrets from Israel to the Russians (an adversarial nation), his comments about firing Comey as a way to take the pressure off the Russia investigation, and his constant tweets and speeches about how he is the most mistreated politician in history. That last one is just about the stupidest most dishonest comment I've heard from Trump.

So, all in all Trump is the only one who can make this mess go away. And, he MUST ignore the investigation, let it take its course, and cooperate in any way possible. Just say that he supports the special council and is looking forward to vindication, and that's it. But, if he keeps insulting people, threatening the media, insulting judges, makes friends with an adversarial nation that he is accused of colluding with, etc.

I don't think Trump has it in him ...

 

[Falvlun]

It's not just a matter of money; it's a matter of being able to influence elections using media. If the goal here is to ensure that the electorate is completely uninfluenced by outside ideas or media moguls, then the media itself will have to be more tightly controlled.

I agree that the media, and how people consume it, is a weak link.

But I think there is a difference between domestically influenced media vs media curated and disseminated by foreign players.

 

[Stevicus]

I agree that the media, and how people consume it, is a weak link.

But I think there is a difference between domestically influenced media vs media curated and disseminated by foreign players.

It seems that the line between the two is rather blurred anyway, and has been for quite some time. How many foreign born people work in US media today? How many have appeared in films or TV shows? How many foreign born producers and directors are there? How many foreign born musicians are there? How many media companies have foreign investors? All of these foreigners have been working their way into the hearts and minds of Americans for a long time now, and as a result they have influenced US politics.

The only real complaint now is that there are different foreigners (i.e. "Russians") getting involved in the same game which other foreigners have already been playing. So the question is not really about "foreign players," but about Russians specifically. We're holding the Russians (and Trump) to a different standard than other nations and presidents have been held to in the past.

Bottom line: If it was okay for John Lennon or Bono to publicly state opinions of US politics, then we have to extend the same courtesy to the Russians. If we don't, then someone will have to explain the difference very, very carefully.

 

[Falvlun]

Bottom line: If it was okay for John Lennon or Bono to publicly state opinions of US politics, then we have to extend the same courtesy to the Russians. If we don't, then someone will have to explain the difference very, very carefully.

That's the kicker though: it's not Ivan Ivanov standing up and saying "This is what I think." It's Mr. Ivanov hiring people to write fake stories and then circulate them as if they were real, or spreading opinions under the guise that it is from Mr. Americanman, or hiring hackers to dig up dirt on politicians.

Russians are more than welcome to pubically enter our discourse. But that's not what they are doing. They are sneaking and undermining.

 

[Stevicus]

The criminal investigation is brand new. It often takes years for indictments to be handed down in Federal cases. They aren't going to indict Trump unless they have extremely solid evidence. So, it's going to take time. This is not going to go away for quite some time. Most likely it will be in the background of Trump's entire presidency.

And, Trump has really been hurting his own credibility lately, contradicting his surrogates at practically every turn, giving highly classified secrets from Israel to the Russians (an adversarial nation), his comments about firing Comey as a way to take the pressure off the Russia investigation, and his constant tweets and speeches about how he is the most mistreated politician in history. That last one is just about the stupidest most dishonest comment I've heard from Trump.

So, all in all Trump is the only one who can make this mess go away. And, he MUST ignore the investigation, let it take its course, and cooperate in any way possible. Just say that he supports the special council and is looking forward to vindication, and that's it. But, if he keeps insulting people, threatening the media, insulting judges, makes friends with an adversarial nation that he is accused of colluding with, etc.

I don't think Trump has it in him ...

Honestly, I'm just not sure where any of this is going to end up. At the very least, the actual business of running the country is going to be hampered, for all three branches of government.

But as far as any investigation goes, it's going to come down to "What did the president know and when did he know it?" The only reason Nixon got caught was because he was dumb enough to make tape recordings of every conversation in the White House. Once that got out, then it became a bunch of legal wrangling over the tapes, which ultimately backed Nixon into a corner where he had no other choice but to resign.

That doesn't seem likely to happen this time around, unless there's some hidden evidence or a "smoking gun" that they're saving for a surprise. But if they don't have something already, then the investigation might likely turn out to be a dead end. It might be like Captain Queeg investigating who stole the strawberries.

 

[leibowde84]

Honestly, I'm just not sure where any of this is going to end up. At the very least, the actual business of running the country is going to be hampered, for all three branches of government.

But as far as any investigation goes, it's going to come down to "What did the president know and when did he know it?" The only reason Nixon got caught was because he was dumb enough to make tape recordings of every conversation in the White House. Once that got out, then it became a bunch of legal wrangling over the tapes, which ultimately backed Nixon into a corner where he had no other choice but to resign.

That doesn't seem likely to happen this time around, unless there's some hidden evidence or a "smoking gun" that they're saving for a surprise. But if they don't have something already, then the investigation might likely turn out to be a dead end. It might be like Captain Queeg investigating who stole the strawberries.

Trump is certainly stupid enough to record conversations in the Oval Office. He even hinted at having them ... which evidences that stupidity.

 

[leibowde84]

Honestly, I'm just not sure where any of this is going to end up. At the very least, the actual business of running the country is going to be hampered, for all three branches of government.

But as far as any investigation goes, it's going to come down to "What did the president know and when did he know it?" The only reason Nixon got caught was because he was dumb enough to make tape recordings of every conversation in the White House. Once that got out, then it became a bunch of legal wrangling over the tapes, which ultimately backed Nixon into a corner where he had no other choice but to resign.

That doesn't seem likely to happen this time around, unless there's some hidden evidence or a "smoking gun" that they're saving for a surprise. But if they don't have something already, then the investigation might likely turn out to be a dead end. It might be like Captain Queeg investigating who stole the strawberries.

You are forgetting that Trump has done everything within his power to make himself look suspicious and like he is trying to obstruct the investigation. What more is necessary for an investigation to be warranted. And, as far as the press goes, Trump started a war with them. They weren't just going to take shots from an amature. Now he's paying the price.

 

[Stevicus]

That's the kicker though: it's not Ivan Ivanov standing up and saying "This is what I think." It's Mr. Ivanov hiring people to write fake stories and then circulate them as if they were real, or spreading opinions under the guise that it is from Mr. Americanman, or hiring hackers to dig up dirt on politicians.

Russians are more than welcome to pubically enter our discourse. But that's not what they are doing. They are sneaking and undermining.

And that's the risk we run in an open system like ours.

But if we're talking about propaganda and political "dirty tricks," then that's something we've seen done domestically for quite some time. That's the sort of thing which political machines and other power brokers have thrived upon and gained power in this country. It's gotten so ubiquitous that people just accept it as a matter of course, "it's just our system" and "there's nothing we can do." These kinds of cynically defeatist attitudes have been common among the electorate ever since the Vietnam/Watergate era, accompanied by a plethora of conspiracy theories which go all over the map.
The real question now is, how do we protect ourselves and prevent this kind of thing from happening again? A large part of the problem for America is that we've had no real course or direction to take, as our government simply reacts to things while desperately trying to maintain some sort of "status quo." Our relationship with that which is identified as "foreign" has also become complicated and can often get confusing for the American public - and this, too, has worked for the benefit of the establishment politicians and the elite.

When all this is over, we Americans will still have to take a long, hard look at our political system, our economic system, and how we have related to the outside "foreign" world. This is something that comes difficult for Americans, since most of us have such short attention-spans and are only interested in soundbites and infotainment. Even during this current scandal, I can't help but notice that it's being covered like some kind of celebrity gossip rag.

I just hope that America learns some hard lessons from this whole affair. But from what I'm seeing in terms of reactions, we're not learning the right lessons. We're grasping at straws in order to avoid taking a long hard look at where we've been recently and where we are going, as a country. Many of our government's sins have been justified by vague notions of "national interests," yet few people have any kind of clear, coherent, consistent idea of what our "national interests" actually are.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

As someone who believes 9/11 was an inside job....

sn't
That explains a bunch.

Isn't "belief" a wonderful thing? You get to do it for no other reason that, well, no reason at all, actually.

 

[Stevicus]

You are forgetting that Trump has done everything within his power to make himself look suspicious and like he is trying to obstruct the investigation. What more is necessary for an investigation to be warranted.

I never said the investigation was unwarranted. Certainly, there is enough cause to have an investigation, but I'm not sure anything substantial will really come of it.

And, as far as the press goes, Trump started a war with them. They weren't just going to take shots from an amature. Now he's paying the price.

So, that's what it's all about? The press has a wounded ego from taking shots from an amateur? Well, I guess they're free to take their shots, too. But this points up another flaw in the overall system in that the media tend to make themselves the story rather than whatever they're supposed to cover on behalf of their viewers/readers. A lot of these media moguls and people in the press seem too arrogant and full of themselves anyway, so maybe they deserve to be insulted - by amateurs and professionals alike.

 

[suncowiam]

Trump's not a liar in my book. There are those like Obama, who's words strain out a gnats, but then Isis grows like a camel on morning grass. Trump, though his words don't strain out gnats, will take care of the larger issues. As someone who believes 9/11 was an inside job, yes I believe Comey deserves to be fired.

That actually explained a lot.

 

[columbus]

I never said the investigation was unwarranted. Certainly, there is enough cause to have an investigation, but I'm not sure anything substantial will really come of it.

So do i.
Where we seem to differ is why. I see the potential for high treason to be quite large. Putin is the autocratic leader of a country that wants to regain global superpower status. Accomplishing that will necessarily come at the expense of USA dominance. Russia is not just another country.
Trump has already demonstrated a willingness to lie in a self serving way. He has already been demonstrated to have picked top government officials with connection to Russia that are important and damaging enough to lie about. He has already been demonstrated to pass top secret information to the Russians.

So when he also starts obstructing the investigation into all this he is damning himself in a very big way. It will be impossible to prove that things aren't what they seem, treason, when he puts so much effort and political capital into quashing the various investigations.
Tom

 

[leibowde84]

I never said the investigation was unwarranted. Certainly, there is enough cause to have an investigation, but I'm not sure anything substantial will really come of it.

This I agree with. We really don't have enough information to make a valid prediction either.

So, that's what it's all about? The press has a wounded ego from taking shots from an amateur? Well, I guess they're free to take their shots, too. But this points up another flaw in the overall system in that the media tend to make themselves the story rather than whatever they're supposed to cover on behalf of their viewers/readers. A lot of these media moguls and people in the press seem too arrogant and full of themselves anyway, so maybe they deserve to be insulted - by amateurs and professionals alike.

The press aren't being unfair. They just aren't giving him any free rides. They aren't giving him the benefit of the doubt and aren't "cutting him slack" simply because he's an amature at this game. And, since he has treated the press far worse since he started his campaign, there is nothing unfair about it. Trump needs to learn that how he treats people will affect the way that others treat him. That is life, and it would actually be unfair if it was any other way.

 

[columbus]

This I agree with. We really don't have enough information to make a valid prediction either.

I will confidently predict that little will come of it.

Based on Trump's history of self serving dishonesty and greed, I predict that he and his staff will continue to obstruct and dissemble. That no real investigation will take place. His supporters will continue to regard attempts to hold him accountable as partisan attacks. His Republican enemies will find ways to bring him down that are less destructive to the Republican brand.
Tom

 

[leibowde84]

I will confidently predict that little will come of it.

Based on Trump's history of self serving dishonesty and greed, I predict that he and his staff will continue to obstruct and dissemble. That no real investigation will take place. His supporters will continue to regard attempts to hold him accountable as partisan attacks. His Republican enemies will find ways to bring him down that are less destructive to the Republican brand.
Tom

I think you are wrong. Trump has no power over the Special Counsel. He can't even use his "charm" to try to influence the investigation, as he is not permitted to even meet with Muller. I think that is why he is so frustrated right now. He is used to intimidating people into getting what he wants. Now he has no idea what is even going on with the investigation.

 

[columbus]

I think you are wrong. Trump has no power over the Special Counsel. He can't even use his "charm" to try to influence the investigation, as he is not permitted to even meet with Muller. I think that is why he is so frustrated right now. He is used to intimidating people into getting what he wants. Now he has no idea what is even going on with the investigation.

I hope you're right. But Trump's been underestimated before. And his buddy Putin is extremely skilled at playing the game and has, I believe, an important asset to protect.
Tom