Trump Calls for Ban on All Muslims Entering US

[Revoltingest]

Maybe it does on a national level. But on an International level, it makes your country look backwards and stupid.

I'm not talking about earning respect, but rather garnering media attention.
This works on the international stage too.
Besides, all major countries look stupid.
It goes with having a large population with many leaders ready to embarrass the country at a moment's notice.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Besides, all major countries look stupid.
It goes with having a large population with many leaders ready to embarrass the country at a moment's notice.

I spotted a flaw in your hypothesis. Australia is not a country with a large population, and I doubt we qualify as a 'major country'.

 

[Revoltingest]

I spotted a flaw in your hypothesis. Australia is not a country with a large population, and I doubt we qualify as a 'major country'.

Lesser countries can look stupid too.....no conflict with my claim.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Lesser countries can look stupid too.....no conflict with my claim.

No doubt. But if you want definitive proof of that, you're better off googling 'Tony Abbott' and...err...well,pretty much one of a number of words that the language filter won't allow me to type here.

 

[metis]

Bernie is boring.
There.....I said it.

That's because he speaks over your head.

 

[Revoltingest]

That's because he speaks over your head.

If he's too hyper-intellectual to appeal to us unwashed masses, then he's doomed.
Hillary has the right messages to win votes.
They're simple.....;
"I didn't do it!"
"I'm no longer anti-gay marriage!"
"Pants suits....what can't they do!?"

 

[metis]

If he's too hyper-intellectual to appeal to us unwashed masses, then he's doomed.

If you drop the "m" from above, I think you finally got it.

 

[Revoltingest]

If you drop the "m" from above, I think you finally got it.

"dooed"?
English isn't your first language, eh?
Btw, Bernie is my favorite of the leading candidates.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Have you read what happened to American-Japanese during WW2?
It's far from exhaustive, but for a simple to read overview if you're not familiar...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment_of_Japanese_Americans

What's your opinion of that?

Well I certainly don't view the internment of American Citizens as being a good thing although in time of war many rights can be suspended and stripped away and martial rule imposed. Givin the logic of internment of people of Japanese decent it would follow that those of Italian and German decent should follow as well.

The internment zone was coastal so from what I understand, it wasn't effecting Japanese Americans living within the interior states of the country.

Still, this was clearly a knee jerk reaction accociated with recent Japanese aggression on pearl harbor. At least Ronald Regan made available some reperation concerning this.

I think internment was unjustified and wrong with Japanese American citizens.

Did trump also call for imprisonment and internment for Muslims? I didn't have that impression unless I missed that.

 

[metis]

"dooed"?
English isn't your first language, eh?
Btw, Bernie is my favorite of the leading candidates.

Ah, that's just because I didn't see the second "m" in your statement.

But at least you & I agree on Bernie.

 

[Baladas]

Because Nazis, Communists, Totalitarians and Anarchists are banned from becoming US Citizens as applicants are required to be "attached to the principles of the Constitution of the United States, and well disposed to the good order and happiness of the same." So what Trump said has precedents in US history in the laws passed during the Red Scares in the 20's and the 50's and elsewhere. But there is considerable difference between a political and a religious test for US citizenship. These ideological restrictions continue to be on the statute books in the US and have been recodified in the wake of the 9/11 attacks.

So as a former member of a communist party, I am legally prohibited from becoming a citizen of the United States.

I am too cool for you people. Now stand back and watch me destroy your way of life.

There are exemptions if a person can demonstrate that membership of such an organisation was not ideologically motivated as sometimes people have to join as it is necessary for career advancement in the remaining communist states. It's something to watch out for though. a number of McCarthy era laws remains in force in the US at both state and Federal level as nobody bothered to repeal them. So People can start using them again in the name of "national security". Trump is just starting where McCarthy and co left off.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ideological_restrictions_on_naturalization_in_U.S._law

It will be...interesting to see what becomes of all of this to say the least.
I find it very alarming how bold the extremist right-wing people are becoming...there is no shame or apology for damning millions of innocent people for the actions of a few. I suppose part of it is the media sensationalizing things as usual, but it's still disconcerting.

I have given some serious thought to joining up with the Communist party here Stateside.
As of now, I've decided I probably will not. Mostly because there is virtually no presence in my State.

In Arizona, the only reason I can see to join up is to make a statement. I am unsure of exactly how visible Arizona is on an international level, but I am sure many are aware that it's very Right-Wing here.
You should have seen my mom's face when she found out I was a socialist. lol

Anyways, I am favoring the Green Party as of now. Now, if only we could break the stranglehold of our two party system.

 

[Mycroft]

I'm not talking about earning respect, but rather garnering media attention.
This works on the international stage too.
Besides, all major countries look stupid.
It goes with having a large population with many leaders ready to embarrass the country at a moment's notice.

Yeah, but Trump makes your country look wal-mart stupid. And nobody wants to be that stupid.

Over here in Britain a Trump is a word we use for a fart. It's a thing. It exists. Spread the word, brother!

 

[Revoltingest]

Yeah, but Trump makes your country look wal-mart stupid. And nobody wants to be that stupid.
Over here in Britain a Trump is a word we use for a fart. It's a thing. It exists. Spread the word, brother!

But you have royalty to make an entire empire look stupid.
(There's a reason dingoes steal babies in Oz.)
Over here, Prince is a common name for a dog.
We're all a mess, eh.

 

[Laika]

It will be...interesting to see what becomes of all of this to say the least.
I find it very alarming how bold the extremist right-wing people are becoming...there is no shame or apology for damning millions of innocent people for the actions of a few. I suppose part of it is the media sensationalizing things as usual, but it's still disconcerting.

I have given some serious thought to joining up with the Communist party here Stateside.
As of now, I've decided I probably will not. Mostly because there is virtually no presence in my State.

In Arizona, the only reason I can see to join up is to make a statement. I am unsure of exactly how visible Arizona is on an international level, but I am sure many are aware that it's very Right-Wing here.
You should have seen my mom's face when she found out I was a socialist. lol

I'm hoping that ther ground swell against trump will be enough as I'm not sure I like any of the other options. if Trump became the republican nominee but lost in november of next year, I'd still say that is too close for comfort.

I think you should be careful before joining the communist party, especially in the US. I haven't been able to talk about it anywhere else as it's not really important to most people so they don't get how personal it is but here's a few thoughts. your very welcome to PM if you want to chat about the history, ideas and stuff.

Spoiler: The Road to hell is paved with good intentions

The US has some really "evil" Mccarthy era laws on the statute books but its debatable how much they are used. I live in the UK so I don't know all of them. To my knowledge there are no eqivilent laws in the UK but here's a few to watch out for at the Federal Level:

Smith Act (1940)
McCarren Internal Security Act (1950)
Communist Control Act (1954)

I haven't looked at the state level, but I vaguely remember some states have laws that prohibit members of the communist party from recieving social security. Each of these laws can legitimately be cliamed to be unconstitutional and a violation of the bill of rights, but as communists were treated as agents of a foreign government (not without good reason) it was eqivilent to being a treated as a spy. The effects of the McCarthy witch-hunts almost destroyed the US communist party. The Communist control act of 1954 banned the party and denied party members their citizenship rights, which is how they could be denied social security (think Nuremburg laws and denying Jews german citizenship and you grasp what that potentially means). It was however rushed through commitee and was badly worded meaning it wasn't really enforced. the act remains law today so the current US communist party exists by default. J. Edgar Hoover opposed the communist control act because he thought it would drive them underground where it would be harder to track them. He also joked that he was keeping them afloat as about a fifth of all members of the party were FBI informants and paying membership dues. this was long after their glory days in the 20s and 30s when they were reduced to something like 10,000 members. efforts to get rid of these laws have been very slow as even after the fall of the USSR no-one wants to be seen as soft on communism.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...-oaths-persist-despite-court-rulings/1940865/

There are the "non-legal" issues too such as blacklists amongst employers so they don't have to deal with "troublemakers" or union problems. I probably have a file somewhere in GCHQ and it is best for me to assume as such, but it will almost certianly be very thin as my activity has really only been on the internet. even though I was only a member for eight months this year, I suspect it will come back to haunt me at some later date and I'm as "ok" with that as I ever can be. I joined out of very desperate hope that I might be able to do something useful and maybe be one of those "crazy" people who had the right idea in the right place at the right time. my big fear what could happen with climate change and the effect it have on my generation and generations to come. slowly realised over the course of this year that the communist party in the UK (one of many, about 27 far-left parties) still hadn't dealt with the stalinist past and was in one of the many shades of denial in the far left over it. a major clue should have been when I realised it was part of an international organisation including the (north) korean worker's party. the only time I've heard communists deal with the history as seriously as it deserved to be was when they walked away, often becoming anti-communists in the process. despite my best efforts, I haven't found a better option than to distance myself from it, though obviously its still something very dear to me. Whilst communists and Nazis are very different, there methods weren't. there was the grim realisation that I was finding it harder and harder to tell the difference and it continues to cause my much emotional pain. there has also always been the fear in the back of my head that far-right sympathisers may make and follow up on death threats. there is a website in the UK which stores people deatils so that fascists can harrass them. its still rare, but if you wear the communist label, the threat is "above average" than for most people. its odd too when you watch or read the news and realise the word "extremist" means you. thats jarring.

As for my parents, they have never approved of my intrest in communism and have only grudgingly tolerated it. When I told them I joined the Party (it was sort of a coming out thing and trying to break the shame of it) my mum didn't talk to me for a month after that. My dad did talk to me, but that included a conversation on one of our drives involving handing my into the police if I did anything "stupid", as well as forbidding any party material in the house, and cutting my allowence so "their" money didn't reach the party (I agreed as it was the only way to diffuse the tension in the house). They also threatened to write a clause into their will forbidding my inheritence from being donated to the party. so even though I never went to a single meeting or rally nor even met another member, it was an extremely "long" eight months.

But yeah. there was a "******" feeling that was pretty good too. there are alot easier ways of getting it. many people do sex, drugs and rock and roll, but this was my vice of choice for teenage years. my heart was in the right place and I asked the right questions including ones I rather not, but I never realised how complicated and uncertian the answers were until now. we are at the mercy of forces that we don't control and revolutions put that on steriods and make it harder to control, not easier. I have wondered whether I really believed it and whether I really knew what I was doing, but the truth is no-one does. thats the danger. there are always unintended consequences.

its good to know about the ideas, the history, be politically active and stay aware of how things are changing and try and defend yourself and do what you can to help others. there are lots of really important things going on that affect the future, but admittedly not as much as we can do about them as I'd like. but don't treat joining the communist party as an empty statement. even if you do it entirely peacefully and legally by elections and nothing goes wrong, you are stilltrying to overthrow the government. that can upset people for some reason.

 

[Mycroft]

But you have royalty to make an entire empire look stupid.
(There's a reason dingoes steal babies in Oz.)
Over here, Prince is a common name for a dog.
We're all a mess, eh.

That's okay. Because over here, Prince Charles is a common name for a cock-ring.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

But you have royalty to make an entire empire look stupid.

Our cockney Lord Sugar would soon put that upstart Trump in his place though.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I wonder if he would include secular Muslims like anti-ISIS pop artist Helan Abdulla:

What's a secular Muslim? Since secular means without religion, "secular Muslim" seems like quiet the oxymoron.

 

[Quagmire]

"Bloomberg Politics Poll: Nearly Two-Thirds of Likely GOP Primary Voters Back Trump's Muslim Ban"

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...im-ban/ar-AAgdlXD?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=mailsignout

More than i would have guessed.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

"Bloomberg Politics Poll: Nearly Two-Thirds of Likely GOP Primary Voters Back Trump's Muslim Ban"

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...im-ban/ar-AAgdlXD?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=mailsignout

More than i would have guessed.

That doesn't really surprise me, sense they are looking at a group that does tend to have more xenophobia and bigotry, in general, than when compared to other groups. Add to the fact that right-winged media sources are far more likely to be running anti-Muslim rhetoric, I cannot say I'm surprised the number is that high.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Well I certainly don't view the internment of American Citizens as being a good thing although in time of war many rights can be suspended and stripped away and martial rule imposed.

Press Conference:

Q: So, Mr President, you have decided that the countries Muslims need to go into internment?

A: Yes. Yes, that's right. There were obviously some incidents, some riots. Some innocent people were hurt. So this is really for their own safety. It's a temporary measure, of course. I'm fully supportive of the Constitution, as we all are, but these are dark times.

Q: So you wouldn't strip citizens of their constitutional rights if everything was beer and skittles?

A: Of course not. What a ridiculous notion. No, we have identified an international crisis, and are responding.

Q: With a change in domestic policy?

A: This is, of course, a global consideration now. Terrorism can strike anywhere.

Q: The people being interned aren't accused of terrorism, are they?

A: No, of course not.

Q: It's merely a means of preventing potential acts of terror in the future, right?

A: Yes, exactly. I'm glad you understand.

Q: So they'll be joined by Christian fundamentalists who support strong anti-abortion action.

A: Yes, they...hang on. No. No, that's ridiculous.

Q: I don't mean all Christians, Mr President. I don't even mean all Christian Fundamentalists. I just mean those that confess they support strong action against abortion.

A: That's insane. Why would we do that?

Q: Well...the...domestic terrorism. Like...the risk of future domestic terror acts...

A: This is a ridiculous line of questioning.

Q: I just assumed...

A: Crap question. Change topics or this interview is done.

Q: Okay...umm...recent gun violence has led to much discussion over the 2nd Amendment, and more specifically....

A: I can cut you off there. The Constitution was carefully written to protect the rights of American citizens.

Q: Yes, but in times of trouble we can strip rights as a means of protecting...

A: I'll just leave you with a quote, my poor deluded man. 'Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.' Ben Franklin, in case you are unaware.

Q: Sure. I know the quote. He wrote it in support of a taxation proposal. The Pennsylvania Assembly wanted to tax the Penn family to help support military buildup on the frontier as a means of defence against the Indians and the French. I don't understand how that relates to the topic at hand though?

A: Well...liberty...you know...because...This interview is over.

Givin the logic of internment of people of Japanese decent it would follow that those of Italian and German decent should follow as well.

That's where it gets interesting. Sure, Germans were detained. But in the vast majority of cases they weren't American citizens. And in those cases where they WERE US citizens, there were procedural hearings to determine if the person was a potential risk. It was in no way the grand sweep that Japanese internment was, and it didn't ignore the difference between foreign nationals, and US citizens with foreign heritage. Further, it didn't involve relocation across the country in the manner that Japanese internment did.

Racism played a part. So too did the fact that the Japanese had directly attacked US soil.
I am unsure on the Italians, to be honest, although, again, they weren't relocated in large scales across the country.

The internment zone was coastal so from what I understand, it wasn't effecting Japanese Americans living within the interior states of the country.

Mostly. It was really just the West Coast, but (interestingly) not Hawaii. They were relocated to detention centres far from the West Coast, and then there were issues with resettlement after the war...

http://depts.washington.edu/civilr/after_internment.htm

Did trump also call for imprisonment and internment for Muslims? I didn't have that impression unless I missed that.

No. I think he is marginalizing a group of US Citizens, and am surprised at the relative level of acceptance of this. To me, it's interesting to look at historical precedents, but I'm not equating the two.