Trump has a real opportunity with the anthem protests, but, undoubtedly, he will waste it.

[Jainarayan]

This is the first step ... raising awareness. They want to start a conversation. Obviously, charities and fundraisers aren't going to help this problem at all. They are trying to get government actors (the police) to address racial prejudice in their ranks. Protests are the best way to start when taking on the government.

Keep believing that, I don't buy any of it. The awareness was painfully raised when BLM went on their lying spree, inciting violence and more lies, inciting yet more violence. Let's see what happens, or rather doesn't happen after this "protest". Who or what will be blamed then? Will these guys be praised as heroes, and everyone and everything else will be the villains? That's a typical victim mentality and tactic... "we tried but no one listened, it's not our fault".

 

[leibowde84]

Keep believing that, I don't buy any of it. The awareness was painfully raised when BLM went on their lying spree, inciting violence and more lies, inciting yet more violence. Let's see what happens, or rather doesn't happen after this "protest". Who or what will be blamed then? Will these guys be praised as heroes, and everyone and everything else will be the villains? That's a typical victim mentality and tactic... "we tried but no one listened, it's not our fault".

We will have to wait and see. Obviously, real change is going to take years, not days. And, they have to first convince our political leaders that there is a problem that has to be addressed. That is what they are doing right now. Trump is extremely stubborn though.

 

[Jainarayan]

We will have to wait and see. Obviously, real change is going to take years, not days. And, they have to first convince our political leaders that there is a problem that has to be addressed. That is what they are doing right now. Trump is extremely stubborn though.

This started long before Trump was elected. Trump has been in office nine months. People have always cried police brutality. The 1967 Newark riots, excuse me... "protests"... started because a black man who was taken into custody at the 4th Precinct, was not released by the front door where he was taken in, but by another exit. A rumor started that because he wasn't seen to exit, he died while in police custody, sparking the riots, excuse me... protests. 1967 Newark riots - Wikipedia

So, you tell me why people are skeptical of the claims of groups like BLM. Were officers DeSimone and Pontrelli justified in their use of violence on Mr. Smith? Probably not. Was this justified: 1967 Newark riots - Wikipedia The riots/protests got awareness raised... a thriving city of over 400,000 people, a center of commerce and culture now stands with a population of less than 280,000. Fifty years later, the city is still fighting to regain some semblance of functionality and livability, something it will never regain to its pre-July 1967 state. So if anyone wants to believe this is Trump's or Obama's or Bush's or X's doing, I invite them to pull their heads out of their butts and study some history.

 

[leibowde84]

This started long before Trump was elected. Trump has been in office nine months. People have always cried police brutality. The 1967 Newark riots, excuse me... "protests"... started because a black man who was taken into custody at the 4th Precinct, was not released by the front door where he was taken in, but by another exit. A rumor started that because he wasn't seen to exit, he died while in police custody, sparking the riots, excuse me... protests. 1967 Newark riots - Wikipedia

So, you tell me why people are skeptical of the claims of groups like BLM. Were officers DeSimone and Pontrelli justified in their use of violence on Mr. Smith? Probably not. Was this justified: 1967 Newark riots - Wikipedia The riots/protests got awareness raised... a thriving city of over 400,000 people, a center of commerce and culture now stands with a population of less than 280,000. Fifty years later, the city is still fighting to regain some semblance of functionality and livability, something it will never regain to its pre-July 1967 state. So if anyone wants to believe this is Trump's or Obama's or Bush's or X's doing, I invite them to pull their heads out of their butts and study some history.

Nice straw man. I never even suggested that Trump is to blame for police brutality. I said he's stubborn, so he isn't listening to the reasoning given behind the protest. Until he recognizes there is a problem, nothing can be done. And, it seems overwhelmingly obvious that there is a problem, seeing how there have been numerous instances where police have murdered people without just cause. Judges give them deference, so they usually get off, but maybe that needs to change.

 

[Jainarayan]

Nice straw man. I never even suggested that Trump is to blame for police brutality. I said he's stubborn, so he isn't listening to the reasoning given behind the protest. Until he recognizes there is a problem, nothing can be done. And, it seems overwhelmingly obvious that there is a problem, seeing how there have been numerous instances where police have murdered people without just cause. Judges give them deference, so they usually get off, but maybe that needs to change.

I'm not strawmanning you... nice reverse strawman. Trump's name is being thrown around as if this started during his administration, and if he's going to wave his pen and make it go away. I never said it was anyone in particular who said it. You yourself said it will take years. And I'd like to see these instances where police have murdered people without just cause. In 2016 a total of 963 fatal shootings, in 2017 a total of 730 fatal shootings by police. No further information given, some justified, others probably not. These figures are 0.00000321% and 0.00000243% for 2016 and 2017, respectively. Hardly a wanton killing spree.

Yes, this is a conservative site The Real Statistics Behind Police Killings, Broken Down by Race but if someone can refute it with honest and accurate figures, have at it.

 

[leibowde84]

I'm not strawmanning you... nice reverse strawman. Trump's name is being thrown around as if this started during his administration, and if he's going to wave his pen and make it go away. I never said it was anyone in particular who said it. You yourself said it will take years. And I'd like to see these instances where police have murdered people without just cause. In 2016 a total of 963 fatal shootings, in 2017 a total of 730 fatal shootings by police. No further information given, some justified, others probably not. These figures are 0.00000321% and 0.00000243% for 2016 and 2017, respectively. Hardly a wanton killing spree.

Yes, this is a conservative site The Real Statistics Behind Police Killings, Broken Down by Race but if someone can refute it with honest and accurate figures, have at it.

There have been a few instances caught on tape where police have killed unarmed people. One that was really apparent was when the cop asked for a guy to get his license so the guy reached into his pocket. Then the cop shot him 5 times. His partner on the other side of the car wasn't alarmed at all.

But, all in all, the only important factor is that many black people are extremely upset and are speaking out. The decent reaction is to hear them out and start a dialogue. Instead, our president insulted them, asked that the NFL fire them, and lied, saying that the protest was about disrespecting our flag and anthem. In his usual style he provided absolutely no evidence to back that claim.

 

[averageJOE]

And I'd like to see these instances where police have murdered people without just cause. In 2016 a total of 963 fatal shootings, in 2017 a total of 730 fatal shootings by police. No further information given, some justified, others probably not. These figures are 0.00000321% and 0.00000243% for 2016 and 2017, respectively. Hardly a wanton killing spree.

Yes, this is a conservative site The Real Statistics Behind Police Killings, Broken Down by Race but if someone can refute it with honest and accurate figures, have at it.

Hmmm....

360 days in a year. 963 killings in 360 days amount to 2.6 people killed a day. We are in October and are at 730?

Now...if there were only a way to factor in the beatings, unnecessary use of tasers, K9 maulings, pepper spraying, abuse of handcuffs, harassed, profiled, or being put in jail for days even weeks at a time and released without a single charge ever being filed.

But alas, it would be an impossible feat. Because all that happens all day every day in every state.

 

[Falvlun]

Just a few years ago he stated that the President should not get involved with NFL issues. A president shouldn't tell an NFL team what to do, Trump tweeted ... in 2013 - CNNPolitics

Clearly the creature who thinks of itself as Lord Emperor feels entitled to do whatever the %$*# he wants with total lack of regard for consistency, morals, honesty or any other virtue.

There really is a hypocritical Trump tweet for everything.

 

[Guy Threepwood]

... but, undoubtedly, he will waste it.

NFL players are trying to spread awareness of racial injustice, or police brutality specifically, by kneeling during the national anthem.

What would a decent President do? Say, I hear you. Admit that there is a problem with racial prejudice and police brutality toward minorities in the country. Come to the White House and let's discuss how we can attack this problem.

Instead, he refuses to even hear them. They clearly and specifically explain that the protests are not about the flag or the anthem, they are about racial prejudice in this country. In response, Trump and his surrogates say that their protest doesn't make any sense and that it is, in fact, about the flag and the anthem because "Trump says so".

It is truly embarrassing/disgraceful that Trump doesn't have more sense. The players are protesting Trump's response now, so the problem is only going to get worse.

Trump just needs to say "I'm sorry for the way I reacted. I want to help. Let's get together and come up with a plan to address this issue." Instead, Trump divides, attacks, insults, name-calls, etc. When a pro-basketball player or sportscaster name-calls it is inappropriate, but not really too big of a deal. They are young and they aren't politicians or elected officials.

But, when a sitting President steps into a social battle over race, saying that protests about racial prejudice aren't valid and calls the protesters names, that is despicable, destructive, childish, inappropriate and unacceptable.

Trump has a real opportunity to change minds and make things better in regards to racial prejudice. But, instead, he is undoubtedly going to keep making it worse.

It's good to see the players who stand up for the anthem now, doing so in defiance of political pressure, that was the original idea was it not?

 

[leibowde84]

It's good to see the players who stand up for the anthem now, doing so in defiance of political pressure, that was the original idea was it not?

Political pressure? No one pressured the NFL players to do it initially. It was their idea, and they did it completely freely.