Trump has a real opportunity with the anthem protests, but, undoubtedly, he will waste it.

[Enoch07]

You have to keep in mind, with such statistics, they don't include the total amount of crimes actually committed, but first and foremost can only consider crimes reported, and next they must have a culprit, and this culprit must be found guilty. And then we also have to consider the fact innocents are sometimes charged, but blacks more so often than whites.

Unfortunately we can't govern based on feelings and conjecture. We govern by data. The data points to the black community as the most violent. Wrongful convictions are a thing unfortunately, but it is not the mahor contributing factor as to why the number are so egregiously high. The fact is that poverty breeds crime and violence. Regardless of race. It just so happens that blacks suffer greatly from poverty, and therefore also suffer from higher crime and violence that they inflict mostly on themselves, but also others.

 

[sayak83]

That is what I am saying. But handing over property and wealth will not help them. These are lazy fixes that will do nothing to solve the problem long term. They wouldnt be able to afford land taxes on any property and would lose that property.

Say I passed down my $300,000 home to a poverty stricken black family with a net income of $25,000 per year. They would depending on the state have pay upfront up to 20% tax on the value of the home. $300,000 × 20% = $60,000 upfront just to take possession of the home initally. Do you know any poverty stricken families with $60,000 laying around? Add to that homeowners insurance, hoa fees, and property taxes every year, it is a futile effort resulting in that family losing the home, in which a bank would just resell to a family who could afford it. It is an excercise in futility.

Establishing the nuclear family. A home with 2 parents and 2 incomes raising children is the most productive way to break the chains of poverty. It can be done in as little as one generation but can take 2-3 generations to establish real wealth. This is the only solution. And african american communities can only use self discipline to enact these changes. They can't be forced by anyone. The change is cultural and must come from within.

Of course there are things the state can do. Invest in good quality child care and schools in black neighborhoods. Increase scholarships black students in college. Give companies large tax benefits if they hire more African Americans. Create a national black American day with fairs and exhibits showcasing black contribution from the sad days of slavery to modern successes. Surely spending money to improve black communities is better than spending it instead in incarceration them?

 

[Jainarayan]

I'm not sure where you live, but you could not be more wrong. The only people who seem to have a problem with the protest of racial prejudice are Trump supporters. And, they believe everything Trump says anyways. He's just playing to his base.

I'm neither a Trump supporter or detractor. I didn't vote for him or Hillary, nor would I vote for either one in the future, should either one run again.

But, the players were successful. People are definitely talking about the issue now. And, more and more people are siding with them against Trump. Look at how hard the NFL hit back.

If you want to believe that, have at it. What people are talking about is how disrespectful the overpaids are being towards the country and the rest of its citizens. The first thing people started talking about was Kaepernick's disrespect, not that he was a light to the world.

If you think there is no problem with racial prejudice and police brutality in this country, you haven't been paying attention.

Did I say that? Where did I say that? When did I say that? Could it be that people read what they want to read? Much confirmation bias?

 

[Koldo]

That is what I am saying. But handing over property and wealth will not help them. These are lazy fixes that will do nothing to solve the problem long term. They wouldnt be able to afford land taxes on any property and would lose that property.

Say I passed down my $300,000 home to a poverty stricken black family with a net income of $25,000 per year. They would depending on the state have pay upfront up to 20% tax on the value of the home. $300,000 × 20% = $60,000 upfront just to take possession of the home initally. Do you know any poverty stricken families with $60,000 laying around? Add to that homeowners insurance, hoa fees, and property taxes every year, it is a futile effort resulting in that family losing the home, in which a bank would just resell to a family who could afford it. It is an excercise in futility.

Establishing the nuclear family. A home with 2 parents and 2 incomes raising children is the most productive way to break the chains of poverty. It can be done in as little as one generation but can take 2-3 generations to establish real wealth. This is the only solution. And african american communities can only use self discipline to enact these changes. They can't be forced by anyone. The change is cultural and must come from within.

So, is this all of it ?
Don't you see any alternative other than what you have presented here ?

How about improving access to education for starters ?

 

[Enoch07]

Of course there are things the state can do. Invest in good quality child care and schools in black neighborhoods. Increase scholarships black students in college. Surely spending money to improve black communities is better than spending it instead in incarceration them?

Yes, i snipped out the parts i disagree with but, the rest will help tremendously coupled with the re-establishment of the nuclear family.

 

[Enoch07]

So, is this all of it ?
Don't you see any alternative other than what you have presented here ?

How about improving access to education for starters ?

See my response to Sayak83 on post # 65

 

[sayak83]

Yes, i snipped out the parts i disagree with but, the rest will help tremendously coupled with the re-establishment of the nuclear family.

What's the deal with nuclear family though? Why can't grandpa's, grandma's (from both sides) along with moms and dads and children live together under one roof? Why the need to start a new household as soon as one is an adult? Joint families are far better. That way if one member is down or absent for some reason, others can fill up the role. We are communal animals, not cats. The concept of splitting up makes no sense. Makes one feel insecure and isolated. I believe that is causing so much depression in the modern world.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Unfortunately we can't govern based on feelings and conjecture. We govern by data. The data points to the black community as the most violent. Wrongful convictions are a thing unfortunately, but it is not the mahor contributing factor as to why the number are so egregiously high. The fact is that poverty breeds crime and violence. Regardless of race. It just so happens that blacks suffer greatly from poverty, and therefore also suffer from higher crime and violence that they inflict mostly on themselves, but also others.

I'm not going by feelings, but by facts. And not only with facts that blacks are found guilty more often, and the facts such statistics require a crime to be reported and require someone to be found guilty of the crime (leaving unreported and unsolved crimes as something that renders such crime statistics hazy at best), I can also mention 10 years ago, when I had absolutely no cares about anything in the world, I managed to rack up a good long list of crimes, crimes that would have been reported, filed as business losses, crimes that have no face behind it (though I'm pretty sure one place I was shop lifting from knew I was, they could just never actually prove it).
You have to consider such things when considering crime statistics. Most crimes do not even get reported in the first place, and of those that do, the majority go unpunished as they have no one to charge or prosecute. And then of those charged, so very often those with money for a lawyer can find courtroom miracles waiting for them, while the poor, who can't afford a lawyer and get stuck with an overworked and overburdened public defender, tend to be a big chunk of those we read as statistics of who is committing crime.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

What's the deal with nuclear family though? Why can't grandpa's, grandma's (from both sides) along with moms and dads and children live together under one roof? Why the need to start a new household as soon as one is an adult? Joint families are far better. That way if one member is down or absent for some reason, others can fill up the role. We a communal animals, not cats. The concept of splitting up makes no sense. Makes one feel insecure and isolated. I believe that is causing so much depression in the modern world.

When you split people up, make them feel they have to fend for themselves and very narrow definition of "their own," you make them weaker and more vulnerable, thus making them easier to control.
In all reality, when you line up all the different models of family our species has practiced, the "Nuclear Family" is about the least family like model that exists. Even the arranged marriages and planned family alliances of Medieval Europe put far more of an emphasis on family than we do. Mom, dad, and kids who are expected to leave at the age of 18 is not a family.

 

[sayak83]

When you split people up, make them feel they have to fend for themselves and very narrow definition of "their own," you make them weaker and more vulnerable, thus making them easier to control.
In all reality, when you line up all the different models of family our species has practiced, the "Nuclear Family" is about the least family like model that exists. Even the arranged marriages and planned family alliances of Medieval Europe put far more of an emphasis on family than we do. Mom, dad, and kids who are expected to leave at the age of 18 is not a family.

Why has this become so prevalent in the West?

 

[leibowde84]

I'm neither a Trump supporter or detractor. I didn't vote for him or Hillary, nor would I vote for either one in the future, should either one run again.



If you want to believe that, have at it. What people are talking about is how disrespectful the overpaids are being towards the country and the rest of its citizens. The first thing people started talking about was Kaepernick's disrespect, not that he was a light to the world.



Did I say that? Where did I say that? When did I say that? Could it be that people read what they want to read? Much confirmation bias?

How is kneeling during the national anthem disrespectful to our country?

 

[Enoch07]

What's the deal with nuclear family though? Why can't grandpa's, grandma's (from both sides) along with moms and dads and children live together under one roof? Why the need to start a new household as soon as one is an adult? Joint families are far better. That way if one member is down or absent for some reason, others can fill up the role. We are communal animals, not cats. The concept of splitting up makes no sense. Makes one feel insecure and isolated. I believe that is causing so much depression in the modern world.

Single parent homes are the issue. Mostly in the african american community single moms trying to raise several kids all by themselves. Dual income homes provide more stabilty than single parent homes. Joint family can work just fine, but nuclear family is the best.

 

[Jainarayan]

How is kneeling during the national anthem disrespectful to our country?

I don't care if it's standing on your head, getting into a pushup position, doing a plank, or sitting cross-legged. The position doesn't matter, that it's done deliberately is what matters. When it's been tradition to stand, and often salute, to deliberately kneel knowing you are being contrary to the tradition, is disrespectful.

 

[Enoch07]

I'm not going by feelings, but by facts. And not only with facts that blacks are found guilty more often, and the facts such statistics require a crime to be reported and require someone to be found guilty of the crime (leaving unreported and unsolved crimes as something that renders such crime statistics hazy at best), I can also mention 10 years ago, when I had absolutely no cares about anything in the world, I managed to rack up a good long list of crimes, crimes that would have been reported, filed as business losses, crimes that have no face behind it (though I'm pretty sure one place I was shop lifting from knew I was, they could just never actually prove it).
You have to consider such things when considering crime statistics. Most crimes do not even get reported in the first place, and of those that do, the majority go unpunished as they have no one to charge or prosecute. And then of those charged, so very often those with money for a lawyer can find courtroom miracles waiting for them, while the poor, who can't afford a lawyer and get stuck with an overworked and overburdened public defender, tend to be a big chunk of those we read as statistics of who is committing crime.

Well we can't do anything about unreported crimes. Unless people start reporting them.

 

[leibowde84]

I don't care if it's standing on your head, getting into a pushup position, doing a plank, or sitting cross-legged. The position doesn't matter, that it's done deliberately is what matters. When it's been tradition to stand, and often salute, to deliberately kneel knowing you are being contrary to the tradition, is disrespectful.

I disagree. Their intent is not to be disrespectful to the flag or the anthem. I don't find it disrespectful. I'm not a fan of tradition in and of itself. I don't think tradition has inherent value. Just because something is different than the norm doesn't mean it is disrespectful. The protest is about racial prejudice, not disrespecting anything.

 

[leibowde84]

I'm neither a Trump supporter or detractor. I didn't vote for him or Hillary, nor would I vote for either one in the future, should either one run again.



If you want to believe that, have at it. What people are talking about is how disrespectful the overpaids are being towards the country and the rest of its citizens. The first thing people started talking about was Kaepernick's disrespect, not that he was a light to the world.



Did I say that? Where did I say that? When did I say that? Could it be that people read what they want to read? Much confirmation bias?

Also, keep in mind that many (if not most) NFL players did not grow up with affluence. Many grew up poor, using their athletic ability to make something of themselves and crawl out of poverty. Some of the "overpaids" grew up in poor neighborhoods and saw racial prejudice first hand. Now they actually have a voice, and they are using it to spread awareness of the issue. To me, that is admirable. It's not like they are disrupting the football game in any real way. The people who are choosing to be offended by the kneeling are the ones causing a disruption.

Why is it OK for nazis to protest with swastikas, torches and racist chants (pretty much as unamerican as it gets), but NFL players shouldn't be permitted to kneel during the national anthem to protest the treatment of minorities by the police?

 

[Twilight Hue]

Sure it is. Prejudice will always exist. Police brutality is at an all time high, but they kill more white people than they do black people, but you don't hear anyone complaining about that. I believe the police in the U.S need far more psychological evaluation and training.

I'm a huge HUGE proponent of police body cameras. It would provide court admissible evidence for the raw reality of what's actually going on, and protect the perpetrator as well as the police officers themselves.

 

[Enoch07]

I'm a huge HUGE proponent of police body cameras. It would provide court admissible evidence for the raw reality of what's actually going on, and protect the perpetrator as well as the police officers themselves.

I agree they should be required on all police officers on duty. This protects civilians just as much as it does the police.

 

[Jainarayan]

Why is it OK for nazis to protest with swastikas, torches and racist chants (pretty much as unamerican as it gets), but NFL players shouldn't be permitted to kneel during the national anthem to protest the treatment of minorities by the police?

Neither is OK.

Btw, why is it OK to kneel in protest of the statistically nebulous treatment of minorities by the police (which frankly, I think is a lot of media race-baiting) and not in protest of the thousands of veterans living on the streets, without so much as medical care? Isn't anyone raising awareness about that? My goodness! If someone wanted to really protest against the injustices in America, I can think of none better than those the flag and country have turned its back on... veterans. Where's the wailing and gnashing of teeth for them? And where's the programs being instituted by these overpaid pampered attention-seekers for minority kids to keep them out of trouble, and put them on the fast track out of poverty and a life of crime? I'll ask again... What are they doing other than grandstanding? Wait, I'll answer that... they're doing NOTHING.

 

[Jainarayan]

The protest is about racial prejudice, not disrespecting anything.

Barnyard effluvium sourced from male bovines.