• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Trump is losing the debate acting like a raving lunatic

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
Disinformation. We already know that the issues have been ongoing in Springfield since before Vance was selected by Trump as VP. Yet here you are claiming Vance made it up.


These problems have in common that they are caused by massive immigration into Springfield.


You are the one claiming Kamala didn't make any delusional claims... so just admit that you don't have an unbiased view.


If people don't vote for a candidate, then, yes, obviously, that can be why a candidate doesn't get elected... I'm not sure what autocracy you are living in where that's not the case... it's even worse that you think this is some sort of anti-semitic trope. I'm sorry that you have been led down a path of such blind hate.


While some immigrants already resided in Springfield, the recent massive influx of immigrants into Springfield is part of the massive inflow taking place under the Biden-Harris administration for the past 3.5 years.


The lie alleges that Trump called nazis fine people, when, in reality, Trump condemned them.


LoL, it's only a lie if Trump or Vance says it?!? What are you on? Seriously, where do you even get your information from that you've somehow ended up with that point of view?


I've brought up many issues besides the pet-eating issue: car crashes, harassment of residents, and an over-loaded health care system, to name a few. Springfield has multiple problems as a result of immigration under the Biden-Harris administration.


Perhaps you'd like to take this opportunity to acknowledge the problems Springfield faces as a result of immigration.


You don't deny it.


That was a question to Kamala, as opposed to a fact-check of her response. Perhaps you didn't watch the debate.


Suggesting Trump is anti-semitic because of Charlottesville is insane - and not fact-checked by the moderators.


Trump demolished their fact check in real time at the debate.


Why don't you come out and admit that you believe the residents of Springfield are lying? You accuse Trump and Vance of lying and you malign me for simply pointing out that this issue is going to go well for them politically, but you can't say that you don't believe what the residents of Springfield have said? Maybe you need to take a break from this.


Good question! In some cases, residents are speaking for multiple others - as indicated in the March 12, 2024 City Commisssion Meeting. We only see a fraction of the people who are experience problems at the City Commission Meetings. So I don't actually know how many people have experienced problems, but there are a lot of them. Moreover, I guess your lack of response to my question means that you don't actually know what Vance said about Springfield. You were simply spreading disinformation by saying that Vance had invented the stories.


Did you watch Kamala at the debate? Do you think it looked like she knew about the problems in Springfield?


Not a problem for you at least.


It's not been great in Springfield. People (including children included) have been killed or hospitalized as a consequence of immigrants not being acclimated to life there. So, yes, it is a negative experience in many ways.


I've been clear that even if you don't believe cats are being eaten... that the issues in Springfield mean the attention there will swing in Trump's favor as time passes. Moreover, this is the main point of the post I made (that you replied to). Yet you've shown that you are quite willing to say Trump is lying while balking at affirming the claim that the residents who reported the stories are lying. I think that shows that you are commited to maligning Trump at all costs.
Sorry but I think you reside in LaLaLand with Trump.
YOU are spreading disinformation about Trump's absolutely delusional claim that people are stealing and eating cats. You cling to this it the face of ZERO evidence, just like Trump. Vance even admitted he made it up. And here you are still spreading disinformation about it.
 

Pogo

Well-Known Member
Disinformation. We already know that the issues have been ongoing in Springfield since before Vance was selected by Trump as VP. Yet here you are claiming Vance made it up.
There are zero cases of pets being stolen by Haitians, the two cases reported, the first the Facebook post was retracted as just a hearsay rumor, the second was a missing cat reported to the police and the cat was later found in the basement. Vance has said he has more reports but that is hearsay and he refuses to comment further, I.e. they are worthless claims.
These problems have in common that they are caused by massive immigration into Springfield.
.
Well since the first doesn't exist and the problems in Springfield are not due to immigrants but the rapid rise in population they have in common non-existence.
You are the one claiming Kamala didn't make any delusional claims... so just admit that you don't have an unbiased view.
And you haven't shown any delusional claims except your own so we can dismiss that as wel
While some immigrants already resided in Springfield, the recent massive influx of immigrants into Springfield is part of the massive inflow taking place under the Biden-Harris administration for the past 3.5 years.
Immigration to this country has been occurring for as long as the country has existed, It is not going to stop happening though if it does our population of working age people will crash rapidly and then we will have a problem.
I've brought up many issues besides the pet-eating issue: car crashes, harassment of residents, and an over-loaded health care system, to name a few. Springfield has multiple problems as a result of immigration under the Biden-Harris administration.
.
The token car crash was an accident that even the parents of the child in question said should not be blamed on immigrants.
The driver was licensed but Ohio would not allow him to get an Ohio license for reasons unrelated to his driving ability
Perhaps you'd like to take this opportunity to acknowledge the problems Springfield faces as a result of immigration..
Not due to immigrants, but due to the rapid increase in population in a formerly dying city that is now expanding. It is an affordable place to live for a working bedroom community. Lots of cities in the rust belt would love to have the problems Springfield ha
Suggesting Trump is anti-semitic because of Charlottesville is insane - and not fact-checked by the moderators.
He is anti-semitic for any number of reasons, but his main offense is Xenophobia, He is an equal opportunity phobic for anyone who isn't just like him including much of the republican staff that he hired.
Trump demolished their fact check in real time at the debate.
dream on.
Why don't you come out and admit that you believe the residents of Springfield are lying? You accuse Trump and Vance of lying and you malign me for simply pointing out that this issue is going to go well for them politically, but you can't say that you don't believe what the residents of Springfield have said? Maybe you need to take a break from this.
The people of Springfield are not lying when they officially say that this pet meme is false and an unfortunate escalation of falsehoods on social media and even to the point that they do not want Trump and Vance to come there to highlight this non-existant problem in their attempts to continue to vilify people for their differences.
Good question! In some cases, residents are speaking for multiple others - as indicated in the March 12, 2024 City Commisssion Meeting. We only see a fraction of the people who are experience problems at the City Commission Meetings. So I don't actually know how many people have experienced problems, but there are a lot of them. Moreover, I guess your lack of response to my question means that you don't actually know what Vance said about Springfield. You were simply spreading disinformation by saying that Vance had invented the stories..
Vance admitted that he was just using these rumors to make people think there was a problem, If random people in a charged community meeting who make claims without evidence is your standard of truth, you qualify as nothing more than gullible
Did you watch Kamala at the debate? Do you think it looked like she knew about the problems in Springfield?
Yeah, she had accurate information and knew that Trump was just repeating ridiculous rumors to vilify a group of people.
Trump's tone alone in the statement made it obvious he is not suitable for a leadership position even before we get to the fact that his information sources like Laura Loomer are certified conspiracy theorists. Again we go back to the statements of all the Republicans from his prior tenure and others who find him unfit.
It's not been great in Springfield. People (including children included) have been killed or hospitalized as a consequence of immigrants not being acclimated to life there. So, yes, it is a negative experience in many ways.
Say what, there was an accident where a driver was blinded by oncoming sunlight. the rest of this is just xenophobic garbage.
Reminds me of the culture shock a former roommate had coming from Alabama to an ivy league college town. Took him a while to acclimate but he still lives here.
I've been clear that even if you don't believe cats are being eaten... that the issues in Springfield mean the attention there will swing in Trump's favor as time passes. Moreover, this is the main point of the post I made (that you replied to). Yet you've shown that you are quite willing to say Trump is lying while balking at affirming the claim that the residents who reported the stories are lying. I think that shows that you are commited to maligning Trump at all costs.
The stories are false as reported as even the city manager, governor and police department have said or unevidenced hearsay at best.
Unfortunately there are many like you who believe in spite of evidence and because you want all your problems to be somebody else's fault, yes his absurd accusations have an effect.

We can only hope that enough rational people recognize his demagoguery to send him packing back to his trials for keeping classified documents illegally and attempting to overthrow the constitution with false electors and trying to get elected officials to violate their oaths.

You are obviously not going to be one of the rational ones.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
So now Trump is a victim of disinformation... but it's not really in dispute that immigration has caused problems in Springfield. You only dispute the claims of pet eating.
No, Trump is a fount of disinformation. He can hardly be called a victim if his own strategy backfires.
Indeed, and she wasn't fact-checked on it.
She was fact checked on it. You seem to be very confused. Trump lied ten times more often than Kamala in that debate. Both of them were were fact checked thoroughly afterwards. Trump was only live fact checked three times. Of course Trump lied about that too. He said on the order of ten times in one interview. Perhaps he meant to say "I should have been live fact checked at least ten times". But that would have been honest. It was only when Trump made truly idiotic and claims that were dangerous to others that he was live fact checked.
 

Ponder This

Well-Known Member
the problems in Springfield are not due to immigrants but the rapid rise in population
:laughing:

The people of Springfield are not lying when they officially say that this pet meme is false and an unfortunate escalation of falsehoods on social media and even to the point that they do not want Trump and Vance to come there to highlight this non-existant problem in their attempts to continue to vilify people for their differences.
Vivek has already visited Springfield and received a standing ovation.

he was just using these rumors to make people think there was a problem,
$2.5 million is going to go to Springfield to help solve some of these "nonexistent" problems.

Opinion | The Dangers of Donald Trump, From Those Who Know Him

What 91 people who know the former president say about his character. www.nytimes.com
:laughing: the list of people who claim to know him... the money they've made on books they wrote... and the things they say.... :laughing:
Which quote from which person on that list do you find most credible?
(Hint: Don't pick Dick Cheney: "He is a coward.")

Reminds me of the culture shock a former roommate had coming from Alabama to an ivy league college town.
Hitting a school bus and killing a child reminds you of a roommate you had from Alabama?

The stories are false as reported as even the city manager, governor and police department have said or unevidenced hearsay at best.
Unfortunately there are many like you who believe in spite of evidence and because you want all your problems to be somebody else's fault, yes his absurd accusations have an effect.
Governor of Ohio is still sending $2.5 million dollars to Springfield to help address what you think are "nonexistent" problems.

We can only hope that enough rational people recognize his demagoguery to send him packing back to his trials for keeping classified documents illegally and attempting to overthrow the constitution with false electors and trying to get elected officials to violate their oaths.

You are obviously not going to be one of the rational ones.
I notice that despite all you've said, you didn't disgree with my point: that this swings in Trump's favor over time, even if you don't believe pets are being eaten.
Care to make your disagreement with that point formal? Or do you concede it?

Vance even admitted he made it up.
Springfield was having problems before Vance was even selected as VP.
 

Pogo

Well-Known Member
Wow, I haven't even finished your screed and it is obviously (can't quite find the word for abjectly ridiculous. I don't think Warren Zevon could either.)
Vivek has already visited Springfield and received a standing ovation.
Which means absolutely nothing other than that there are some people with poor judgement.
$2.5 million is going to go to Springfield to help solve some of these "nonexistent" problems.
No, nobody said there were no problems, the problems there are due to rapid growth that stretch the resources of a city in decline, in this case dealing with it's sudden reversal in circumstances.
:laughing: the list of people who claim to know him... the money they've made on books they wrote... and the things they say.... :laughing:
Which quote from which person on that list do you find most credible?
(Hint: Don't pick Dick Cheney: "He is a coward.")
What in the heck is this verbal spurt even supposed to mean?
Are you confusing the situation in a real life city with some imaginary global problem?
Hitting a school bus and killing a child reminds you of a roommate you had from Alabama?
Yes because as the father said, it was an accident that had really nothing to do with the origin of the persons involved.
Governor of Ohio is still sending $2.5 million dollars to Springfield to help address what you think are "nonexistent" problems.
Again, no one said Springfield did not have problems, just that they were not the one's you were pretending were relevant.
The Ohio government was doing what it is there for and that is to support Ohio communities during periods of change.
Springfield needs an expansion of schools and healthcare facilities that it does not currently have the resources for and so the state is helping, no doubt the assistance will be paid in increased state tax revenue as is the social contract of state government.
What the source of the stress is not relevant to the response in this and other cases.
I notice that despite all you've said, you didn't disgree with my point: that this swings in Trump's favor over time, even if you don't believe pets are being eaten.
Care to make your disagreement with that point formal? Or do you concede it?
That there are a lot of people who are falling for the divisive and destructive politics that Trump is expounding is not in question and yes, at least in the short term it may benefit him.The much more obvious question is are you endorsing this demonization and lying for political purposes something you morally and ethically support.
Springfield was having problems before Vance was even selected as VP.
Yes, the immigrants paying taxes etc. were there while he was still ostensibly the senator responsible for Springfield and even the rest of Ohio.
So why wasn't he addressing it as part of his job before some absurd social media storm erupted? And why was he one of the seemingly last to know just how absurd these accusations of people were in his own state?

Even worse, he didn't even act vice-presidentially to dissuade Trump from embarrassing himself on the national stage?
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
:laughing:


Vivek has already visited Springfield and received a standing ovation.


$2.5 million is going to go to Springfield to help solve some of these "nonexistent" problems.


:laughing: the list of people who claim to know him... the money they've made on books they wrote... and the things they say.... :laughing:
Which quote from which person on that list do you find most credible?
(Hint: Don't pick Dick Cheney: "He is a coward.")


Hitting a school bus and killing a child reminds you of a roommate you had from Alabama?


Governor of Ohio is still sending $2.5 million dollars to Springfield to help address what you think are "nonexistent" problems.


I notice that despite all you've said, you didn't disgree with my point: that this swings in Trump's favor over time, even if you don't believe pets are being eaten.
Care to make your disagreement with that point formal? Or do you concede it?


Springfield was having problems before Vance was even selected as VP.
Why are you pretending that the "problem" in Springfield (shortage of resources) has anything all to do with pets being eaten????
Why do you imagine that it's okay to lie about people supposedly eating cats and dogs in order to draw attention to other issues? Why not just talk about the other issues instead of making stuff up that has now endangered the city of Springfield and it's residents?????

Trump and Vance's rhetoric is irresponsible and dangerous. Just look at the results.
But for some reason, you can't bring yourself to just acknowledge that.
 

Ponder This

Well-Known Member
No, nobody said there were no problems, the problems there are due to rapid growth that stretch the resources of a city in decline, in this case dealing with it's sudden reversal in circumstances.
The rapid growth is due to immigration, but I'm glad you concede there are problems in Springfield caused by its "rapid growth".
What in the heck is this verbal spurt even supposed to mean?
Are you confusing the situation in a real life city with some imaginary global problem?
Next time, read a link before you post it. Then, when I ask you a question about it, you'll be able to give an answer.
Yes because as the father said, it was an accident that had really nothing to do with the origin of the persons involved.
And... this reminds you of your roommate from college?!? What accident occurred in college that involved your roommate? And how did your roommate cheat to gain admission to college?
Again, no one said Springfield did not have problems, just that they were not the one's you were pretending were relevant.
Immigration into Springfield is relevant to the healthcare system in Springfield.
What the source of the stress is not relevant to the response in this and other cases.
The response is due to the stress. The stress has a cause.
yes, at least in the short term it may benefit him
"Short term", people just thought Trump was crazy, but as time goes on, all the problems caused by immigration in Springfield become more well-known to voters and Kamala's reaction becomes more well-known to voters and this causes a swing in voters in favor of Trump. But it's interesting that you think the benefit to Trump here is "short term". "Short term" has passed and the election approaches. These voters can see that Trump was concerned about the people of Sprringfield and Kamala was not.
The much more obvious question is are you endorsing this demonization and lying for political purposes something you morally and ethically support.
I think there are real issues in Springfield caused by the "rapid growth" of it's population and that includes complaints lodged by its residents. It is not moral or ethical to ignore their concerns. Rather, it is moral and ethical to dig into those concerns, unravel the causes, and seek solutions to ongoing problems, and that includes giving serious consideration to them when they complain about their pets being eaten. So when Kamala's response in the debate is to scoff, it's a very poor reaction on her part. She probably should've stayed calm and not been ruffled into an emotional display belying her lack of real concern for the complaints of common citizens of the U.S.
Yes, the immigrants paying taxes etc. were there while he was still ostensibly the senator responsible for Springfield and even the rest of Ohio.
So why wasn't he addressing it as part of his job before some absurd social media storm erupted? And why was he one of the seemingly last to know just how absurd these accusations of people were in his own state?

Even worse, he didn't even act vice-presidentially to dissuade Trump from embarrassing himself on the national stage?
Vance didn't cause the massive criminal alien migration into the U.S., but it's fair to demand more from Vance to help Ohio cope with the burden caused by the Biden-Harris administration. As a senator, perhaps he could propose legislation to help deal with the crisis. However, because the blame falls primarily on the Biden-Harris administration, I think this issue continues to hurt Harris more than it hurts Vance or Trump.
Why are you pretending that the "problem" in Springfield (shortage of resources) has anything all to do with pets being eaten????
Because the common cause of both problems in the massive influx of illegal immigration into the U.S.
Why do you imagine that it's okay to lie about people supposedly eating cats and dogs in order to draw attention to other issues?
People in Springfield complained about their pets being eaten, but you don't claim that they lied. Yet, you think it would be okay to ignore them.
Why not just talk about the other issues instead of making stuff up that has now endangered the city of Springfield and it's residents?????
Probably the most memorable moment from the debate is the exchange between Kamala and Trump about illegal immigrants eating the pets of Springfield and endangering their lives. Of course, I'm going to talk about it.
Trump and Vance's rhetoric is irresponsible and dangerous. Just look at the results.
But for some reason, you can't bring yourself to just acknowledge that.
The thing is... paying attention to the concerns of the citizens of the U.S., or concerns of the citizens in Springfield, OH, that they raise to their government, or to their City Commission, is a responsible thing to do, but scoffing at them when they complain is an irresponsible and dangerous thing to do.
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
The quote from Cheney saying, "He is a coward," didn't age well once Trump pumped his fist into the air after being shot at Butler.
That was defiance, which was a performance by the character he plays while campaigning.

He avoided military service by faking bone spurs. He's afraid to debate Harris again. He's afraid to be interviewed by 60 Minutes, who fact check. He has no humility, and lies constantly because honesty is treated as weakness. The guy has zero courage.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
That was defiance, which was a performance by the character he plays while campaigning.

He avoided military service by faking bone spurs. He's afraid to debate Harris again. He's afraid to be interviewed by 60 Minutes, who fact check. He has no humility, and lies constantly because honesty is treated as weakness. The guy has zero courage.
No, it was delusional anger. Nothing more. If Trump actually knew that his life was in danger he would not go. Did you forget how he got a fake doctor's report to keep from being drafted?
 

fantome profane

Anti-Woke = Anti-Justice
Premium Member
The rapid growth is due to immigration, but I'm glad you concede there are problems in Springfield caused by its "rapid growth".
But that is because there is industry there that invited these people to come there. There would be "rapid growth" if this industry invited anyone to come.

Maybe the industry that wanted these employees should help take up the slack. What do you think?
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
"Short term", people just thought Trump was crazy, but as time goes on, all the problems caused by immigration in Springfield become more well-known to voters and Kamala's reaction becomes more well-known to voters and this causes a swing in voters in favor of Trump.

You get most of your "news" from Fox, right?
 
Top