Ebionite
Well-Known Member
Apparently nobody thinks that you're telling the truth.
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Trump ordered to pay nearly 355 million in NY fraud case.
- Thread starter fantome profane
- Start date
Ebionite
Well-Known Member
And yet you seem to be unable to say what that assumption actually is.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Oh I could. I was hoping that perhaps someone would help her. Or she could have asked herself.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
I do not need others to do so. I did so. The video shows the judge telling the sovereign citizen exactly what I told you.
Trump had the opportunity for a torial by jury, and his lawyer screwed up and did not select it. In law there is a lot of procedure and deadlines. I remember how Habba didn't select a trial option and the case moved ahead without one. It was too late by the time Habba found out. So Trump had the optoion to have a trial by jury and he blew it. But I don't see how Trump could have had any chance with a jury.Actually it can be. This was not a criminal trial where one is guaranteed. Or even trial between individuals. This was between the State of New York and the Trump Organization. I am not sure if there is a constitutional right for a jury when an organization is involved:
Ebionite
Well-Known Member
No, that was some bull**** from Business Insider, Axios, CNN, and Forbes.
"I would like to say thank you, your honor," said attorney Alina Habba, before turning to reporters in the gallery. "Press, did you hear that? I didn't forget to check the box." '
Judge in Trump's New York fraud trial explains why there's no jury
Even if Trump had asked for a jury, the answer would have been "no," the judge said Wednesday.
www.cbsnews.com
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Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Correct. She was saying that she did not check it on pupose.No, that was some bull**** from Business Insider.
"I would like to say thank you, your honor," said attorney Alina Habba, before turning to reporters in the gallery. "Press, did you hear that? I didn't forget to check the box." '
Judge in Trump's New York fraud trial explains why there's no jury
Even if Trump had asked for a jury, the answer would have been "no," the judge said Wednesday.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Perhaps not. @We Never Know made a good case that there would not have been a trial by jury. And he very well could be right. The right to a trial by jury does not appear to extend to corporations and organizations in New York. Or perhaps it is the nature of the trial. This is not a punishment. The legal term is "disgorgement". They calculated how much money that Trump made using his fraudulent claims and took that money back away from him. They are not taking "his money". It was never legally his to begin with. If I find a bag from an armored truck on the side of the road and take it home and spend all of the money myself I could be in big trouble. That money, even though I found it, was never mine to spend in the first place. If I had turned it over to the police they would have found the company and returned it. Is the money that Trump made by cheating "his" money? I do not think so.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Everybody lies at times. The question is when and why. It is pretty rare for me. I can see why someone would sometimes feel a need to lie.
I have no reason to lie here since I can support my claims. Am I wrong sometimes? Of course. We all are. But there are topics where I am rarely wrong. Can you claim the same?
And don't conflate lying with being wrong. You are wrong quite often, yet you do not seem me calling you a liar. You simply do not know any better.
Callisto
Hellenismos, BTW
To wit,
From Judge Engoran's Ruling
(Summary excerpt)
NYSEF DOC . NO . 1688, pp. 5-6 of 92
The Trial
The eleven-week trial of this action addressed whether defendants are liable pursuant to the second through seventh causes of action and what monetary penalties and/or injunctive relief this Court should impose. Plaintiff is seeking disgorgement of ill-gotten gains, and to limit defendants abilities to conduct business in New York.
Constitutional provisions guaranteeing a jury trial, such as the Seventh Amendment to the United States Constitution, apply only to cases at common law, so-called legal cases. The phrase at common law is used in contradistinction to cases that are equitable in nature. Whether a case is legal or equitable depends on the relief that plaintiff sought. Here, plaintiff seeks disgorgement and injunctions, each of which are forms of equitable relief. Thus, there was no right to a jury 3, and the case was tried to the Court the Court being the sole fact finder and the sole judge of credibility.
____________________________________________________________
3 In any event, neither party applied nor moved for a jury trial.
Per Cornell Law School, equitable relief is defined as:
"The remedy resulting from a claim of estoppel. Equitable relief is distinguished from remedies for legal actions in that, instead of seeking merely monetary damages, the plaintiff is seeking that the court compels the defendant to perform a certain act or refrain from a certain act. Common types of equitable relief are injunctions, specific performance, or vacatur."
equitable relief
McBell
Unbound
Instead, the final ruling calls for the Trump Organization to be run essentially by an independent monitor, who was court appointed in 2022, and a new independent compliance director.
The ruling extended the monitor’s role “for no less than three years.”
That new governance structure is the reason Judge Engoron cited for not cancelling the Trumps’ business certificates. “(A)s going forward there will be two-tiered oversight, (by) an Independent Monitor and an Independent Director of Compliance, of the major activities that could lead to fraud, cancellation of the business licenses is no longer necessary,” he wrote in the ruling.
Trump is expected to appeal the judgment. But the fact that Engoron did not effectively dissolve his businesses and instead called for independent oversight may hurt his chances of winning. “The court’s decision to impose governing requirements [on Trump’s businesses] makes the injunction more likely to survive appeal,” Thomas said.
McBell
Unbound
Elena Cardone, the wife of wealthy private equity fund manager and real estate investor Grant Cardone, created the GoFundMe page shortly after Friday’s ruling, titled: “Stand with Trump; Fund the $355M Unjust Judgment.”
Ms Cardone wrote, “I stand unwaveringly with President Donald Trump in the face of what I see as unprecedented and unfair treatment by certain judicial elements in New York.”
“The recent legal battles he faces are not just an attack on him, but an attack on the very ideals of fairness and due process that every American deserves,” she wrote. “It’s a moment that calls into question the balance of justice and the application of law, disproportionately aimed at silencing a voice that has been at the forefront of advocating for American strength, prosperity, and security.”
GoFundMe launched for Donald Trump’s ‘unjust’ $350m fine in civil fraud case
‘I stand unwaveringly with President Donald Trump in the face of what I see as unprecedented and unfair treatment by certain judicial elements in New York,’ Elena Cardone wrote
And you’re the nobody.
Ebionite
Well-Known Member
The clean-hands doctrine is the principle that a party’s own inequitable misconduct precludes recovery based on equitable claims or defenses.
clean-hands doctrine
Since Letitia James and Arthur Engoron both draw a salary from the state and the state seeks to gain financially from the case, the state doesn't have clean hands because of judicial prejudice due to financial interest.
Interesting. I read that. The reporting I heard was that Habba didn’t request the jury trial. So who knows?
It’s irrelevant at this point since the ruling is released. Next move is on Trump, and will he come up with the money to appeal?
Callisto
Hellenismos, BTW
Are you a judge? Take it up with Engoran.The clean-hands doctrine is the principle that a party’s own inequitable misconduct precludes recovery based on equitable claims or defenses.
clean-hands doctrine
www.law.cornell.edu
Since Letitia James and Arthur Engoron both draw a salary from the state and the state seeks to gain financially from the case, the state doesn't have clean hands because of judicial prejudice due to financial interest.
You seem to think you know better than the actual experts in this case, claiming a conflict of interest where there is none.
Too bad you aren’t Trump’s lawyer. Where are you licensed as an attorney?The clean-hands doctrine is the principle that a party’s own inequitable misconduct precludes recovery based on equitable claims or defenses.
clean-hands doctrine
Since Letitia James and Arthur Engoron both draw a salary from the state and the state seeks to gain financially from the case, the state doesn't have clean hands because of judicial prejudice due to financial interest.
I ask since you present yourself as knowing more about New York law than the attorneys and judges in New York.