"Trump says he would 'encourage' Russia to attack Nato allies"

[fantome profane]

Or...maybe he's a believer in paying the bills for something as important as national security, which isn't something that comes for free.

Is he a believer in following the law? Because Nato is law, not only is it law it is the supreme law of the land in the U.S.

 

[Revoltingest]

Or...maybe he's a believer in paying the bills for something as important as national security, which isn't something that comes for free.

So Trump favors Debtor's Execution
over Debtor's Prison.
I expected you to support Trump on this.

 

[Father Heathen]

As Putin interviewed by Carlson said: when the US stop giving weapons to Kiev, the war will be over.
Because Ukrainians will not have anything to attack Russians with, and will withdraw.

It will be over because he'll have won, to the detriment of the Ukrainian people's lives, land, and liberty. Appeasement is not peace.

 

[fantome profane]

As Putin interviewed by Carlson said ...

Anything either of those said is utterly worthless.

 

[Shaul]

"Drinking the Kool-Aid" is now part of
the language. The connection with
Jonestown is merely historical.

I wouldn't work so hard to take offense.
It's rather snowflakie.

I personally know people involved including people that were shot there. So, yes, I will take offense and for me it is personal. Is that a problem for you?

 

[Shaul]

His desire to have Russia invade, destroy, & conquer
them for the reason of non-payment is no less evil.

Actually it is far less evil. The countries that don't pay are the ones endangering all the other members of NATO by not doing so.

 

[Revoltingest]

I personally know people involved including people that were shot there. So, yes, I will take offense and for me it is personal. Is that a problem for you?

No problem at all.
That's why I often use the "Kool Aid" metaphor.

 

[Shaul]

People can choose to be offended if they like. No offense is intended.

Really? I didn't choose to have people I know shot in Jonestown and because of that I find people who unthinkingly use that phrase both offensive and insulting to the memories of those murdered there. And if anyone think that is being too thin skinned that is also on them.

The phrase doesn't actually refer to murder any more assuming it ever did. It disparagingly refers to the indoctrination people like those at Jonestown, which occurred before they chose to go there and is why they went there. It doesn't refer to the children, who literally drank the poison as well as their indoctrinated parents. From Wiki:

"Drinking the Kool-Aid" is most strongly believing and accepting in a deadly, deranged, or foolish ideology or concept based only upon the overpowering coaxing of another"

Although this is a religious example, I hear the phrase most often in connection with American conservative political indoctrination. The perpetrators who believed Trump's Big Lie drank the Kool-Aid. Those who say that it wasn't an insurrection drank the Kool-Aid. Those who believe that prosecuting Trumps crimes is politically motivated drank the Kool-Aid.

That link was a list of links. This is from the first one:

(This is an edited version of the remarks Kathy Tropp Barbour made at the Jonestown Memorial at the service for survivors and families on November 18, 2011. The remarks were addressed in the presence of the 30 people gathered on the hillside and the 409 people buried at her feet, but also to the 914 members of Peoples Temple who died 33 years earlier.)

To the family we gather to honor, you will live in our hearts forever. Some survivors and former members of Peoples Temple would like to stop people from using the phrase, “drinking the Kool-Aid” out of respect for you. I think this is misguided and, even if it were possible, might not have the intended result. I say this for three reasons:

• • It is a useful phrase. “Drinking the Kool-Aid” is a verb; the noun is “Kool-Aid drinker.” These terms express a complex concept, that of loyalty to a leader or a cause to the extreme of one’s own demise. They are universally recognized, universally understood, to convey that, and usually it is appropriate.
• Although the offense of hearing our loved ones reduced to an aspersion is real, most of the time these words are used, it is to describe someone else. They are not talking about us. I would try not to take it personally.
• Third and most importantly, there is no untruth in it. It happened, we have all had to deal with the reality of it and the pain of the result, and come to terms with it.

The second link contained this:

"After talking to a couple of people about it, though, I realized that I had assumed everyone knows where the expression “Drink the Kool-Aid” came from. Many of the people attending the forum were younger than I am and may have never even heard of Jonestown, much less have made the association with the expression."

So no to the contention that the phrase is ridiculing the deaths at Jonestown. But as I said, those who choose to take offense at the phrase are free to do so. I don't intend to give up using the phrase, and it would be exceedingly unlikely that I have in the past or would in the future offend anybody. It's too useful a phrase to give up because somebody somewhere might be offended almost a half century after the fact.

All that is nonsense written people that are either ignorant or insensitive. In case you missed it from my previous post, kindly see the articles here if you still need help understanding why this phrase is hurtful, insensitive and shouldn't be used;
Drinking the Kool-Aid: A Collection of Articles – Alternative Considerations of Jonestown & Peoples Temple

 

[Shaul]

But encouraging a nuclear armed despotic regime to invade sovereign democracies without provocation just because they "didn't pay their bills" very much is irresponsible. No amount of mental gymnastics is going to save your orange messiah. On that note, isn't idolatry forbidden by Judaism?

It is those countries that don't "pay their bills" that are the ones endangering others.

Insinuating that I commit idolatry is not acceptable. You probably are just trying to be provocative. But your motivation isn't what's important. You went too far. Good bye.

 

[Shaul]

No problem at all.
That's why I often use the "Kool Aid" metaphor.

I am hoping that you meant to write that is why you don't often use that metaphor.

 

[Revoltingest]

Actually it is far less evil. The countries that don't pay are the ones endangering all the other members of NATO by not doing so.

You really believe that not paying NATO dues
is worse than Russia invading them? Weird.

 

[Revoltingest]

I am hoping that you meant to write that is why you don't often use that metaphor.

Having no problem with the metaphor,
which is why I often use it. People who
take offense at it are rare....only 1 so far.

 

[Soandso]

You really believe that not paying NATO dues
is worse than Russia invading them? Weird.

Very weird. Who knew having debt was more evil than the horrors that war brings?

 

[Revoltingest]

Very weird. Who knew having debt was more evil than the horrors that war brings?

Supporting Trump means some
fancy tap dancing around one's
values & reality.

 

[Laniakea]

So Trump favors Debtor's Execution
over Debtor's Prison.
I expected you to support Trump on this.

I take it that you don't believe that those who don't pay their bills should be held accountable. Do you also believe a landlord does not have the right to evict a tenant for not paying their rent? Sounds pretty harsh if you do. But that is the way it works. Much easier and cheaper to simply pay the bill rather than get thrown out on the street or have your country invaded. It's up to the country to decide whether or not it is worth it.

 

[Revoltingest]

I take it that you don't believe that those who don't pay their bills should be held accountable.

Oh, you're so wrong.
But when my tenants welch on our
deals, I don't invite Putin to kill them.

 

[Laniakea]

You really believe that not paying NATO dues
is worse than Russia invading them? Weird.

NATO countries not paying their dues and then being invaded puts neighboring countries at risk as well. Much the same as not getting a COVID shot is supposedly endangering other people. I've heard that analogy made before by people who use the same logic as you have.

 

[Revoltingest]

NATO countries not paying their dues and then being invaded puts neighboring countries at risk as well. Much the same as not getting a COVID shot is supposedly endangering other people. I've heard that analogy made before by people who use the same logic as you have.

Are you arguing that inviting Putin
to invade non-payers is a good idea?

 

[Soandso]

Supporting Trump means some
fancy tap dancing around one's
values & reality.

Fancy tapdancing? I'd like to think of the mental gymnastics involved in justifying this stuff would be more in line with Chinese acrobatics

 

[Revoltingest]

Fancy tapdancing? I'd like to think of the mental gymnastics involved in justifying this stuff would be more in line with Chinese acrobatics

Perhaps more a contortionist than an acrobat?