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"Trump says he would 'encourage' Russia to attack Nato allies"

Laniakea

Not of this world
Are you arguing that inviting Putin
to invade non-payers is a good idea?

Not paying the agreed upon price to remain within an organization that provides for their protection is an invitation to being invaded and unprotected. Much like living in a hurricane-prone region and not bothering to get homeowners insurance.
 

Shaul

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
You really believe that not paying NATO dues
is worse than Russia invading them? Weird
Not paying their dues will CAUSE the Russian invasion. If we want to avoid such an invasion then having them pay to prevent it is needed. What would be "weird" is expecting you prevent an invasion without paying the cost necessary to do so.
 

Laniakea

Not of this world
Which bills do you think are going unpaid? Please be specific.
NATO guidelines encourage all members to spend 2 percent of their respective country’s GDP on their own military defense, so that each member can defend itself to a certain degree without relying too often on pooled NATO forces and equipment. In 2014, NATO leaders came to an agreement that members who spend under that 2 percent benchmark are to work towards reaching that goal within a decade. Currently, only the United States, Greece, Great Britain, Estonia and Poland have spent an average of 2 percent of GDP on their own defenses. The United States by far spends the most, with the average being 3.61 percent of GDP. The other countries spend around 1.5 percent or less, with Luxembourg coming in last at merely 0.44 percent of GDP. Iceland spends nothing on defense, but has no armed forces.

Source: NBC News--another one of your leftist news organizations.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
NATO guidelines encourage all members to spend 2 percent of their respective country’s GDP on their own military defense, so that each member can defend itself to a certain degree without relying too often on pooled NATO forces and equipment. In 2014, NATO leaders came to an agreement that members who spend under that 2 percent benchmark are to work towards reaching that goal within a decade. Currently, only the United States, Greece, Great Britain, Estonia and Poland have spent an average of 2 percent of GDP on their own defenses. The United States by far spends the most, with the average being 3.61 percent of GDP. The other countries spend around 1.5 percent or less, with Luxembourg coming in last at merely 0.44 percent of GDP. Iceland spends nothing on defense, but has no armed forces.

Source: NBC News--another one of your leftist news organizations.
So not actually a bill, then.
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
Not paying their dues will CAUSE the Russian invasion. If we want to avoid such an invasion then having them pay to prevent it is needed. What would be "weird" is expecting you prevent an invasion without paying the cost necessary to do so.
How does that make encouraging an invasion okay?
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
It will be over because he'll have won, to the detriment of the Ukrainian people's lives, land, and liberty. Appeasement is not peace.
With all due respect...but if the Council of Europe decides that that is the solution, why should the US care?
That is, finding a peace agreement with Putin...and if necessary, granting him the four regions?

Europeans don't cross the Atlantic to interfere into the American geopolitics, why can't Americans mind their own business as Europeans do? ;)
 

☆Dreamwind☆

Active Member
My thoughts are, that the crap he's spewing is coming out of the wrong end, as usual. Then again, it seems like a lot of American politicians are nothing but intellectually bankrupt buffoons. But what else is new?
 

☆Dreamwind☆

Active Member
With all due respect...but if the Council of Europe decides that that is the solution, why should the US care?
That is, finding a peace agreement with Putin...and if necessary, granting him the four regions?

Europeans don't cross the Atlantic to interfere into the American geopolitics, why can't Americans mind their own business as Europeans do? ;)
Agreed with the last part
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Is this where you want to quibble over what a payment due is versus what a bill is?
If you realized you've lost, just admit it and find someone else to troll.
It isn't a "payment due" either. It's a commitment to action, similar to the $100 Billion Climate Pledge from OECD member states (which the US has only funded to 5% of its fair share).

If you want an example of an actual unpaid bill, there's the issue of the US's arrears to the UN under Trump that were only recently resolved by Biden.
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
With all due respect...but if the Council of Europe decides that that is the solution, why should the US care?
That is, finding a peace agreement with Putin...and if necessary, granting him the four regions?
It's not their land, lives, or liberty to offer up as a sacrifice. If Italians want to appease tyrants and terrorists, then they should offer their own territory, such as Sicily or Sardinia.
Europeans don't cross the Atlantic to interfere into the American geopolitics, why can't Americans mind their own business as Europeans do? ;)
Protecting and defending the innocent is the moral thing to do. Perhaps the reason you like to repeatedly remind everyone that you're a Christian is because they would never be able to tell otherwise.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
It's not their land, lives, or liberty to offer up as a sacrifice. If Italians want to appease tyrants and terrorists, then they should offer their own territory, such as Sicily or Sardinia.
But the United States are not members of the Council of Europe. So it's up to its members decide about human rights and diplomacy in Europe.
Protecting and defending the innocent is the moral thing to do. Perhaps the reason you like to repeatedly remind everyone that you're a Christian is because they would never be able to tell otherwise.
That's why I want peace. Because I don't want more Ukrainian soldiers to die.
If I were unchristian I would say: "let us use Ukrainian soldiers as cannon fodder, and let them die en masse for the sake of this war".
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
But the United States are not members of the Council of Europe. So it's up to its members decide about human rights and diplomacy in Europe.

That's why I want peace. Because I don't want more Ukrainian soldiers to die.
If I were unchristian I would say: "let us use Ukrainian soldiers as cannon fodder, and let them die en masse for the sake of this war".
Then what are you offering America to stop interfering in Europe? If appeasement is an acceptable solution to stop Russia's interference in Ukraine, then the same solution should work for America, right?
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
Then what are you offering America to stop interfering in Europe? If appeasement is an acceptable solution to stop Russia's interference in Ukraine, then the same solution should work for America, right?
We are not appeasing Russia. We successfully prevented Russia from taking Kiev and conquering all of the country. We prevented Russia from turning Ukraine into a puppet state.
If those four regions are the price to pay for the war to end, that's a good compromise.

We lost lots of lands after WW2. We moved on. Ukraine will survive. ;)
 
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