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Trump Tariff

Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
It Aint Necessarily So said:
That was a response to "we the consumers do pay for the tariffs." Yes, initially, but it's the consumer who eventually foot the bill. Consider:

A hypothetical Japanese car manufacturer sells cars that cost him $35,000 to make for $40,000 to an American importer and retailer, who marks them up to $45,000. The retailer sells 200 units a year from his car lot.

At the same time, an American car manufacturer - say Ford - makes a competing domestic model for $40,000 (he pays more for labor) that also retails at $45,000. The Ford dealer is also selling 200 units per year.

A $20,000 tariff is imposed on the $40,000 Japanese import. Who eventually pays this extra $20,000, and who gets it?

The American importer pays $40,000 to the Japanese manufacturer as before and $20,000 to the US treasury. The retailer marks his car up to $65,000 to make the same $5000 profit per sale, and whoever buys that car has paid the extra $20,000 to the government. This is why it is sometimes called a sales tax, because it functions exactly like one. In fact, the consumer will pay a literal sales tax on the purchase as well. If that's 7%, the car just went up $4550 dollars ($69,950 total after taxes and tariff), also to some government treasury.

This is why tariffs and sales taxes, while technically different, feel the same to the consumer. Each is a surcharge is tacked onto the sales price that goes from the consumer's pocket to the government for no added value.

Look at who else is affected. The Japanese manufacturer and the American retailer can't compete with the American retailer who buys American built cars of about the same quality. If the American retailer had been buying and selling 200 units/yr before the tariff, this might drop to 100 sold a year at this higher price. With each defection of a car buyer from the Japanese import to the domestic model, the Japanese manufacturer and the American each lose the $5000 profit from each of the 100 cars no longer being bought and sold, so they are also losers because of the tariff. They were each earning $1 million on those 200 sales at $5000 profit each, which drops to a half million in profits each.

But that's not the end of this. The American manufacturer, who has also been selling his very similar and competitively priced cars for $40,000 which are also retailed at $45,000 ($48,150 with sales tax), can now raise his prices $15,000 per unit to $55,000 each, and the Ford dealer, who buys them for $55,000, can sell them for $60,000 each - $5,000 less than the $65,000 Japanese import- so, along with the government, the American manufacturer experiences a windfall.

So, the government and the domestic manufacturers are the big winners, getting thousands of dollars each per sale for nothing in return.

And that's why Trump and domestic manufactures of all stripes who compete with imports are keen on tariffs. And though a little of that may come from the Japanese manufacturer and both retailers as the numbers and relative distribution of the sales of both kinds of cars change, the brunt will be paid by Americans buying cars, either domestic or import, and that's inflation for them - a LOT of inflation, like 25-50%.

This is a huge grift that transfers large swathes of money from average Americans to big business and government.

And you know you aren't going to be seeing any improvement in the standard of living of the average American due to the increased tax revenues - no new roads, bridges, or schools because of it. This incoming government has other idea regarding how that money should be allocated.
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It is even worse than that. A business usually tries for a consistent profit margin. Not just a consistent amount of profit. More expensive items take more work to sell. There are all sorts of higher costs. As a result a ten percent tariff will usually result in a ten percent price increase. Some businesses are already raising prices in anticipation of the tariffs.
 
Evangelicalhumanist

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
Shaul said:
Excuse me, but I didn't say anything about anyone attempting to overturn any elections. But some here are writing things such as "collectively, the American electorate is a morally bankrupt idiot". And that is NOT supporting democracy.
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Actually, yes it is. To accept the popuar result even when one thinks it is very wrong is precisely what supporting democracy means. When I hate what you say, but permit you to say it, I am defending freedom of expression. See? Easy-peasy!
 
sun rise

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
Kathryn said:
Looks like tne Mexican President has some ideas about how she can and will cooperate.
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She said she's already doing what she's doing - no proposals - that's just Trump's lying as usual. She's not going to change from what SHE SAID (not what the Fox lying outlet is claiming. Mexico leader responds to Trump claim she agreed to stop migration

Following Wednesday's call, Trump said Sheinbaum had "agreed to stop Migration through Mexico, and into the United States, effectively closing our Southern Border".​
​
This prompted Sheinbaum to say she had merely reiterated Mexico's position, which she said was "not to close borders but to build bridges between governments and people".​
 
Shaul

Shaul

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Evangelicalhumanist said:
Actually, yes it is. To accept the popuar result even when one thinks it is very wrong is precisely what supporting democracy means. When I hate what you say, but permit you to say it, I am defending freedom of expression. See? Easy-peasy!
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So you are agreeing with those that objected to the 2020 election. Nice.
 
Shaul

Shaul

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
John53 said:
Trump is vowing a 25% tariff on Canada and Mexico and 10% on China from the 1st day he takes office. This is bad news for the world economy.

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It appears Trump's posting has produced results. Mexico's President has agreed to stop the migration of illegal immigrants into the United States and work to stop drug smuggling.

Trump touts Mexico's 'effectively closing' the border after call with Sheinbaum. She disagrees
 
McBell

McBell

Unbound
Shaul said:
Yes........
She disagrees with what?
To find out that you need to READ THE ARTICLE.
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Third paragraph of your linked article:

"Mexico's stance is not to close borders, but to build bridges between governments and their peoples," Sheinbaum wrote on X, formerly Twitter, after their conversation.​
​
Let me emphasis the interesting part:

"Mexico's stance is not to close borders, but to build bridges between governments and their peoples," Sheinbaum wrote on X, formerly Twitter, after their conversation.​
 
F

F1fan

Veteran Member
Twilight Hue said:
Considering what Harris had put the table, there's no doubt that the modern Democrats thinking the incompetent word salad Queen Harris was brilliant equally as well in spite of what Democrats had thought of her the first time around burning a billion dollars into the trash can with reckless abandon.
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Well if you want election finance reform start another tread.

Notice you have to attack Harris, and offer no defense for Trump. She had 100 days to campaign, while Trump has been doing nonstop rallies for years, all the while lying contantly, and denying he committed crimes. The 49.9% of voters who voted for him obviously are poorly informed and terrible at complex thinking. His cabinet picks are absurd and inept, and apparently the nominees have to have a history of sexual asault to be considered. His economic plans have been all over the map, and what he does suggest are heavily criticized for the harm they will do. Harris was a vastly superior candidate in every way, and would have surely been vastly superior to what we will get with the mentally disturbed criminal that you prefer.
Twilight Hue said:
That says volumes. She obviously counted on her followers thinking she's brilliant and all her blind fanboys and fangirls certainly didn't disappoint and never learned their lesson to boot to this day.

Funny definition of brilliant isn't it?
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None of this is a coherent argument. It's notable for its irony. As usual.

I would not be surprised if you are feeling some anxiety about what Trump's tariffs will do to the cost of living, but of course you won't mention that in your comments. It's ok to have secrets.
Shaul said:
It appears Trump's posting has produced results. Mexico's President has agreed to stop the migration of illegal immigrants into the United States and work to stop drug smuggling.

Trump touts Mexico's 'effectively closing' the border after call with Sheinbaum. She disagrees
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It's pretty typical of Trump to not take responsibility for a problem and demand others do his work. We made states set standards for Covid and avoiding setting national standards. The guy is lazy as hell. But Mexico didn;t pay for his few miles of wall, and they won't close the border. It's illegal according to international law. We can set limits, but we can't close the border as conservatives sem to believe can be done. The exception is for public health which is why the border was closed to immigration during the pandemic.
 
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