Trump's Instruction to Neo-Nazis: Stand Back and Stand By,

[Mr Spinkles]

You dont need to learn what is experienced.

Huh? Your message appears to have been garbled in transmission. Can you resend?

 

[amorphous_constellation]

• Americans are supposed to be nicer than us, and mostly are.

As an American, my sense is that we don't really rank very high in niceness. I've always admired the general British character however. When they speak, you can tell their word flow is sort of nuanced with introspection. We on the hand, often prefer to get 'short' with others, and express this sense of impatience with no sense of artfulness.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I hadn't thought about that, but sure, I think we are foolish to underestimate what he may do when he loses

Get evicted by the SC and Constitution. If he loses the election, no matter what hes gone in January.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

As an American, my sense is that we don't really rank very high in niceness. I've always admired the general British character however. When they speak, you can tell their word flow is sort of nuanced with introspection. We on the hand, often prefer to get 'short' with others, and express this sense of impatience with no sense of artfulness.

I'm not getting into who's nicer, but I wouldn't judge 'niceness' based on 'politeness'.
Some of the nicest people I have met have been quite abrupt in terms of their communication style, whilst there are some impeccably mannered arses who would happily speak well to you, and disparage you behind your back.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

If this is anywhere near alright with you, you are far from alright with me,

It seems pretty alt-right to me. I hope I am far from alt-right with you.

 

[SomeRandom]

As an American, my sense is that we don't really rank very high in niceness. I've always admired the general British character however. When they speak, you can tell their word flow is sort of nuanced with introspection. We on the hand, often prefer to get 'short' with others, and express this sense of impatience with no sense of artfulness.

I wouldn’t be so quick to judge the niceness of Brits by their word choice, if I were you, mate. All Brits are naturally fluent in sarcasm and can deliver it in a myriad of ways.
Politeness in Brits is oftentimes a mask of sheer disdain.
Now the drunken offspring of Brits, us Aussies on the other hand can do both. Albeit with not as much flair. (I suspect it’s the accent. )

 

[lewisnotmiller]

I wouldn’t be so quick to judge the niceness of Brits by their word choice, if I were you, mate. All Brits are naturally fluent in sarcasm and can deliver it in a myriad of ways.
Politeness in Brits is oftentimes a mask of sheer disdain.
Now the drunken offspring of Brits, us Aussies on the other hand can do both. Albeit with not as much flair. (I suspect it’s the accent. )

Here's an Aussie trait that applies, though...
I'm epically rude to my mates. To be fair, they are similarly rude to me. We regularly call each other hurtful names, and pick on various weaknesses in each other's mental and physical characters.
To say those same things to someone I wasn't mates with would be super unusual. I've really lost my cool a couple of times in my life and said some nasty things with intent, but for the most part I'm just kinda polite-ish with people I don't like, with some non-verbal cues (raised eyebrows, rolled eyes, or just focusing on others) where they're annoying me.

 

[Heyo]

Here's an Aussie trait that applies, though...
I'm epically rude to my mates. To be fair, they are similarly rude to me. We regularly call each other hurtful names, and pick on various weaknesses in each other's mental and physical characters.
To say those same things to someone I wasn't mates with would be super unusual. I've really lost my cool a couple of times in my life and said some nasty things with intent, but for the most part I'm just kinda polite-ish with people I don't like, with some non-verbal cues (raised eyebrows, rolled eyes, or just focusing on others) where they're annoying me.

That is perfectly natural. We keep physical distance from foreigners and we keep them emotionally distant.Our friends are allowed into our personal space. We know that the worst insult from them is only friendly banter and not meant to hurt and we are safe to speak our mind or make inappropriate jokes without them misunderstanding.
In such a group it is an honour and sign of acceptance when you get insulted.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

That is perfectly natural. We keep physical distance from foreigners and we keep them emotionally distant.Our friends are allowed into our personal space. We know that the worst insult from them is only friendly banter and not meant to hurt and we are safe to speak our mind or make inappropriate jokes without them misunderstanding.
In such a group it is an honour and sign of acceptance when you get insulted.

Agree!
The interesting part is that of my closest friends, the majority are non-Australians (I've worked with a lot of foreigners due to the industry I'm in).
Some countries take to this sort of thing much as we do, and I have an American friend who has always been like this.
But I have several close Swedish friends, and it's fair to say it was a shock to them initially how we went at each other. I'm sure they do it as well (like you say, it's a universal way of setting boundaries) but certainly the tone surprised them until they got used to it. Also I think the use of a lot of sarcasm, or irony (which Brits definitely do), which I have been known to do, occasionally....ahem...blame by English grandfather.

 

[MonkeyFire]

Its Donald douche bag

 

[Sunstone]

Its Donald douche bag

What do you have against douche bags? They're useful. Not at all like Mr. Trump.

 

[SomeRandom]

Here's an Aussie trait that applies, though...
I'm epically rude to my mates. To be fair, they are similarly rude to me. We regularly call each other hurtful names, and pick on various weaknesses in each other's mental and physical characters.
To say those same things to someone I wasn't mates with would be super unusual. I've really lost my cool a couple of times in my life and said some nasty things with intent, but for the most part I'm just kinda polite-ish with people I don't like, with some non-verbal cues (raised eyebrows, rolled eyes, or just focusing on others) where they're annoying me.

Sounds like the true blue way to me

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I thought the right-leaning National Review put it well:

About 42 minutes into last night’s debate . . .

WALLACE: You have repeatedly criticized the vice president for not specifically calling out Antifa and other left-wing extremist groups. But are you willing tonight to condemn white supremacists and militia group and to say that they need to stand down and not add to the violence in a number of these cities as we saw in Kenosha, and as we’ve seen in Portland.

TRUMP: Sure, I’m willing to do that.

WALLACE: Are you prepared specifically to do it?

TRUMP: I would say almost everything I see is from the left wing, not from the right wing.

WALLACE: But what are you saying?

TRUMP: I’m willing to do anything. I want to see peace!

WALLACE: Well, do it, sir.

BIDEN: Say it, do it, say it!

TRUMP: What do you want to call them? Give me a name, give me a name, go ahead! Who do you want me to condemn?

WALLACE: White supremacist and right-wing militia.

TRUMP: Proud Boys, stand back and stand by. But I’ll tell you what, somebody’s got to do something about Antifa and the left because this is not a right-wing problem, this is a left-wing.

BIDEN: His own FBI Director said unlike white supremacist, Antifa is an idea not an organization-

TRUMP: Oh, you got to be kidding me!

BIDEN: -not a militia! That’s what his FBI Director said!

TRUMP: Well, then you know what, he’s wrong.

WALLACE: We’re done, sir. Moving onto the next . . .

First, notice Trump brought up the Proud Boys by name, not his rival or the moderator.

Second, notice Trump’s bafflingly stubborn refusal to say, “I denounce White supremacists and right-wing militias.” It’s as if Trump thinks everyone won’t notice, or that the viewers at home will give him some sort of credit for not going along with other people’s requests or demands. Almost everyone else in politics would calculate that any value from not denouncing white supremacists, right-wing militias, or the Proud Boys is more than offset by the damage done among other voters who abhor those groups and who will be repelled by a president who won’t denounce them by name. For some reason, Trump seems to think he can lose all the soccer moms and make up the margin among the extremes.

Third, notice Trump defenders will insist “stand back and stand by” means “stand down.” But if Trump wanted to say “stand down,” he should have said “stand down!” Say what you mean and mean what you say. The common defense of Trump’s “very fine people on both sides” comment about Charlottesville is that he meant to refer to the non-extreme Confederate statue defenders, not the violent and anti-Semitic white nationalists, and his words just came out in an awkward, unclear way that sounded like he was referring to the white nationalists. Funny how Trump’s accidental word mix-ups consistently create this impression that he doesn’t want to alienate these groups.
​

Source: Morning Jolt

FWIW, in another transcript I read, when Trump says, "give me a name!" Biden responds with "Proud Boys!"

I didn't watch that part myself. My wife and I gave up on the debate about half an hour in.

 

[amorphous_constellation]

I wouldn’t be so quick to judge the niceness of Brits by their word choice, if I were you, mate. All Brits are naturally fluent in sarcasm and can deliver it in a myriad of ways.

I'd have to see it to believe it - that anyone in the world can be more passive-aggressive than we midwesterners.. but anyway, didn't mean to derail this thread here, just wanted to make a casual comment

 

[SkepticThinker]

He also, just to complete the set, has no class and no style either. He's a troll.

Yes! I forgot those, thank you.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Here's what one Brit, Nate White, said about how he and the British perceive Trump (dated today, Sep 30, 2020). From British Writer Pens The Best Description Of Trump I’ve Read - London Daily:

“Why do some British people not like Donald Trump?” Nate White, an articulate and witty writer from England wrote the following response:

A few things spring to mind. Trump lacks certain qualities which the British traditionally esteem. For instance, he has no class, no charm, no coolness, no credibility, no compassion, no wit, no warmth, no wisdom, no subtlety, no sensitivity, no self-awareness, no humility, no honour and no grace – all qualities, funnily enough, with which his predecessor Mr. Obama was generously blessed. So for us, the stark contrast does rather throw Trump’s limitations into embarrassingly sharp relief.

Plus, we like a laugh. And while Trump may be laughable, he has never once said anything wry, witty or even faintly amusing – not once, ever. I don’t say that rhetorically, I mean it quite literally: not once, not ever. And that fact is particularly disturbing to the British sensibility – for us, to lack humour is almost inhuman. But with Trump, it’s a fact. He doesn’t even seem to understand what a joke is – his idea of a joke is a crass comment, an illiterate insult, a casual act of cruelty.

Trump is a troll. And like all trolls, he is never funny and he never laughs; he only crows or jeers. And scarily, he doesn’t just talk in crude, witless insults – he actually thinks in them. His mind is a simple bot-like algorithm of petty prejudices and knee-jerk nastiness.

There is never any under-layer of irony, complexity, nuance or depth. It’s all surface. Some Americans might see this as refreshingly upfront. Well, we don’t. We see it as having no inner world, no soul. And in Britain we traditionally side with David, not Goliath. All our heroes are plucky underdogs: Robin Hood, Dick Whittington, Oliver Twist. Trump is neither plucky, nor an underdog. He is the exact opposite of that. He’s not even a spoiled rich-boy, or a greedy fat-cat. He’s more a fat white slug. A Jabba the Hutt of privilege.

And worse, he is that most unforgivable of all things to the British: a bully. That is, except when he is among bullies; then he suddenly transforms into a snivelling sidekick instead. There are unspoken rules to this stuff – the Queensberry rules of basic decency – and he breaks them all. He punches downwards – which a gentleman should, would, could never do – and every blow he aims is below the belt. He particularly likes to kick the vulnerable or voiceless – and he kicks them when they are down.

So the fact that a significant minority – perhaps a third – of Americans look at what he does, listen to what he says, and then think ‘Yeah, he seems like my kind of guy’ is a matter of some confusion and no little distress to British people, given that:

• Americans are supposed to be nicer than us, and mostly are.
• You don’t need a particularly keen eye for detail to spot a few flaws in the man.

This last point is what especially confuses and dismays British people, and many other people too; his faults seem pretty bloody hard to miss. After all, it’s impossible to read a single tweet, or hear him speak a sentence or two, without staring deep into the abyss. He turns being artless into an art form; he is a Picasso of pettiness; a Shakespeare of ****. His faults are fractal: even his flaws have flaws, and so on ad infinitum. God knows there have always been stupid people in the world, and plenty of nasty people too. But rarely has stupidity been so nasty, or nastiness so stupid. He makes Nixon look trustworthy and George W look smart. In fact, if Frankenstein decided to make a monster assembled entirely from human flaws – he would make a Trump.​

I couldn't agree more. I must have some British in me somewhere.

 

[SkepticThinker]

FWIW, in another transcript I read, when Trump says, "give me a name!" Biden responds with "Proud Boys!"

I didn't watch that part myself. My wife and I gave up on the debate about half an hour in.

I seem to remember that as well.

 

[Cooky]

I think the Proud Boys are a group of upstanding citizens, and are peaceful protesters. We don't have to discard our Western identity to be culturally inclusive, and to me, that's what they stand for.

 

[exchemist]

Here's what one Brit, Nate White, said about how he and the British perceive Trump (dated today, Sep 30, 2020). From British Writer Pens The Best Description Of Trump I’ve Read - London Daily:

“Why do some British people not like Donald Trump?” Nate White, an articulate and witty writer from England wrote the following response:

A few things spring to mind. Trump lacks certain qualities which the British traditionally esteem. For instance, he has no class, no charm, no coolness, no credibility, no compassion, no wit, no warmth, no wisdom, no subtlety, no sensitivity, no self-awareness, no humility, no honour and no grace – all qualities, funnily enough, with which his predecessor Mr. Obama was generously blessed. So for us, the stark contrast does rather throw Trump’s limitations into embarrassingly sharp relief.

Plus, we like a laugh. And while Trump may be laughable, he has never once said anything wry, witty or even faintly amusing – not once, ever. I don’t say that rhetorically, I mean it quite literally: not once, not ever. And that fact is particularly disturbing to the British sensibility – for us, to lack humour is almost inhuman. But with Trump, it’s a fact. He doesn’t even seem to understand what a joke is – his idea of a joke is a crass comment, an illiterate insult, a casual act of cruelty.

Trump is a troll. And like all trolls, he is never funny and he never laughs; he only crows or jeers. And scarily, he doesn’t just talk in crude, witless insults – he actually thinks in them. His mind is a simple bot-like algorithm of petty prejudices and knee-jerk nastiness.

There is never any under-layer of irony, complexity, nuance or depth. It’s all surface. Some Americans might see this as refreshingly upfront. Well, we don’t. We see it as having no inner world, no soul. And in Britain we traditionally side with David, not Goliath. All our heroes are plucky underdogs: Robin Hood, Dick Whittington, Oliver Twist. Trump is neither plucky, nor an underdog. He is the exact opposite of that. He’s not even a spoiled rich-boy, or a greedy fat-cat. He’s more a fat white slug. A Jabba the Hutt of privilege.

And worse, he is that most unforgivable of all things to the British: a bully. That is, except when he is among bullies; then he suddenly transforms into a snivelling sidekick instead. There are unspoken rules to this stuff – the Queensberry rules of basic decency – and he breaks them all. He punches downwards – which a gentleman should, would, could never do – and every blow he aims is below the belt. He particularly likes to kick the vulnerable or voiceless – and he kicks them when they are down.

So the fact that a significant minority – perhaps a third – of Americans look at what he does, listen to what he says, and then think ‘Yeah, he seems like my kind of guy’ is a matter of some confusion and no little distress to British people, given that:

• Americans are supposed to be nicer than us, and mostly are.
• You don’t need a particularly keen eye for detail to spot a few flaws in the man.

This last point is what especially confuses and dismays British people, and many other people too; his faults seem pretty bloody hard to miss. After all, it’s impossible to read a single tweet, or hear him speak a sentence or two, without staring deep into the abyss. He turns being artless into an art form; he is a Picasso of pettiness; a Shakespeare of ****. His faults are fractal: even his flaws have flaws, and so on ad infinitum. God knows there have always been stupid people in the world, and plenty of nasty people too. But rarely has stupidity been so nasty, or nastiness so stupid. He makes Nixon look trustworthy and George W look smart. In fact, if Frankenstein decided to make a monster assembled entirely from human flaws – he would make a Trump.​

Thanks for finding and posting this. I had seen it before but could not remember where. It's a perfect description.

 

[exchemist]

I think the Proud Boys are a group of upstanding citizens, and are peaceful protesters. We don't have to discard our Western identity to be culturally inclusive, and to me, that's what they stand for.

Moustache looks just the job, but where's the leather cap with chains, I wonder?