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Trump's Instruction to Neo-Nazis: Stand Back and Stand By,

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Also, regardless of whether it was or was not a slip of the tongue, "stand down" or "stand back" are orders - implying that these groups are directly at the command of Trump.
Yes, that's right. Thanks for pointing that out. He literally issued them a command order, cleary letting everyone know he can order them to act, and they would follow him. I can't imagine for one second, that that was lost upon the Generals of the military. That's a possible call to ordering organized and illegal armed forces within the United States to act upon its citizens.

Now, personally, I don't believe that he is involved directly with these groups, but I certainly think that he knows that he benefits by ACTING as if they are at his command, with the implication to the general public that these people could be "ordered" by him at any time to threaten or harass you if you don't walk his line.
I agree he's not directly involved with them, as in attending their parades and clubhouse meetings. Although, I am at the moment getting this image in my brain of a post-defeat Trump now marching at the front of them with a brown shirt and Nazi swastika armband. I think because it's so easy to envision, not that he'd actual do that. But he does admire them, as we all know.

I do know that when we had the George Floyd protests here in the Twin Cities, we were seeing gangs of motorcyclists and outside white supremacist groups cruising up and down our streets. They are at the ready for Trump, to be sure. And he very much knows that. He can call on them, and in a heartbeat, they would act. He is afterall, a Warlord personality type, and they are definitely the ones who being at the early tribal stage of social development, would cluster right up behind him.

Essentially, he wants to enjoy the benefits of IMPLYING being at the command of violent, white supremacist militia groups, if such a move might make it more likely that some of his political opponents might feel less safe going out and casting their votes.

Then again, this is probably giving him too much credit.
I think he actually did call upon them to show up at polling places in that debate last night. He urged them, is how he put it, to show up and monitor the voters activities to make sure there isn't any fraud going on. That is voter intimidation, and illegal. Yet, he told them to do just that last night.
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
What's the plan?

I'll be watching to see what happens after Biden's win, & assuming
office in January. Will the prognosticators of a coup, civil war, military
intervention, & a white supremacist takeover admit their error?
I think it is more a fear than a prediction. What seems to be almost certain is that he will mount a legal challenge to the result, on some trumped-up basis (hahaha), probably alleging postal vote fraud or something. He may also try to get people to intimidate voters in key locations - easier now that the federal oversight of the process has lapsed, I gather.

I think he will lose any court challenge though. Even if SCOTUS is full of conservative judges, he will find they won't fail to apply the law, just as a favour to him.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
I think it is more a fear than a prediction.
This varies from person to person.

I see no value in agonizing over fears of imagined scenarios
for which one cannot take any precautions. I know some who
feared Obama's refusing to leave office after his 2nd term.
I gave them the same advice.....
I have concerns too...war, regulation, taxation, civil liberties, etc.
Tis in our power to vote. That decision being made, we should
watch with equanimity, & respond reasonably to what happens.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
We should realize the possibility that if Trump loses and refuses to step down, he may try and activate Neo-Nazi and other right-wing elements, all too reminiscent of the Brown Shirts.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
We should realize the possibility that if Trump loses and refuses to step down, he may try and activate Neo-Nazi and other right-wing elements, all too reminiscent of the Brown Shirts.
Next he'll form a secret pact with Stalin, & then invade Poland, eh.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
I'm standing back & standing by.
But I plan to do this no matter what happens.

I'll be pleased to see Mr Trump leave office.
But not so pleased to see Biden enter it.
Biden has to enter it. He firmly expressed himself to Trump that he is the Democrat party.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
I thought that was a very bizarre response. Biden is very incoherent.
It was the only thing that stood out that caught my attention right away. And his expression while stating it. "I AM the Democrat Party"!

For those that missed it....


I regard it as a window of light shining into his recessed personality that he is just as narcissistic and possessive as Trump, except Biden hides it better until Trump last night egged that particular statement out of him.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member
It was the only thing that stood out that caught my attention right away. And his expression while stating it. "I AM the Democrat Party"!

For those that missed it....


I regard it as a window of light shining into his recessed personality that he is just as narcissistic and possessive as Trump, except Biden hides it better until Trump last night egged that particular statement out of him.
I agree. That stood out way more than the Proud Boys statement, to me. I haven't seen any articles talking about it.
 
I regard it as a window of light shining into his recessed personality that he is just as narcissistic and possessive as Trump, except Biden hides it better until Trump last night egged that particular statement out of him.
Holy false equivalence, Batman!

All politicians are narcissistic. But this is the one thing Donald Trump is actually the best at. He is the most narcissistic, ever. Believe me. Okay?

If you really think Donald "illegally used $10,000 of charity money to buy a 6-foot portrait of himself" Trump is equal to anyone in this regard, I've got some Trump steaks I'll sell ya.

Biden's comment is simply saying - while flustered, and being interrupted, and it could have been worded better - that he is the Democratic nominee; and the Democratic platform is based around his platform; all of which is true and a valid response to Trump's interruption that Biden's party supports socialism. What Biden said was over-simplification while he was being interrupted by Trump; but what Trump said, that the party supports socialism, is simply a lie.
 

suncowiam

Well-Known Member
Next he'll form a secret pact with Stalin, & then invade Poland, eh.

Another Sarchasm that ends a discussion?

If you disagreed with Metis, then why not concisely make your counter points and disprove his?

Frankly, I don't know how valid that claim is but I'm guessing neither do you.
 
I agree. That stood out way more than the Proud Boys statement, to me. I haven't seen any articles talking about it.
This could have been worded better but let's remember that (1) Trump was interrupting and (2) in context his point was that Biden - not Bernie Sanders or someone else - won the Democratic Party primary. And that's what the party platform is based on. Not socialism. This is a fact. And a legitimate response to Trump's lie that the party supports socialism. Biden could have worded this better but it was a valid point and Trump was just lying and interrupting again.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
I agree. That stood out way more than the Proud Boys statement, to me. I haven't seen any articles talking about it.
I know the left won't address it. I'd actually be surprised if they did and it would be nothing but making excuses.

Its why calling the Democrats and Republicans mirror images of each other stands and why I maintain that these two entrenched parties are going to be the ones that destroy this country and way of life. At least whats left of it.

Not some foreign power, not Russia, not China, but us and us alone with the Democrats and Republicans swinging the wrecking balls at each other while destroying everything in their path and not giving a damm.

Its like watching Godzilla and Mothra in the 60s with the surrounding environment being reduced to rubble.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Holy false equivalence, Batman!

All politicians are narcissistic. But this is the one thing Donald Trump is actually the best at. He is the most narcissistic, ever. Believe me. Okay?

If you really think Donald "illegally used $10,000 of charity money to buy a 6-foot portrait of himself" Trump is equal to anyone in this regard, I've got some Trump steaks I'll sell ya.

Biden's comment is simply saying - while flustered, and being interrupted, and it could have been worded better - that he is the Democratic nominee; and the Democratic platform is based around his platform; all of which is true and a valid response to Trump's interruption that Biden's party supports socialism. What Biden said was over-simplification while he was being interrupted by Trump; but what Trump said, that the party supports socialism, is simply a lie.
If you think Freudian Slips are false equivalence...

Still this statement came out of Biden himself. No one else.

Unless of course you think Trump's a accomplished ventriloquist with Biden as his dummy. ;0]

As to the socialism, or neo socialism for that matter, I think its time to start looking at parallels to see if Trump's allegations are true or false by way of seeing whats actually manifesting as a result of real world implementation of policies. You could say the same thing for fascism to be fair about it.
 

Heyo

Veteran Member
Even his most diligent detractor, Dan Alexander, estimates
Trump's net worth at over a $billion (after extensive research).
'White House, Inc.' Author: Trump's Businesses Offer 'A Million Potential Conflicts'
Why do you think otherwise?

The issue shouldn't be how much wealth he has, but rather
what he's done to obtain it. That is the harsher question.
He didn't pay taxes because he lost money. He bankrupted six businesses and most of his current businesses are not profitable. It is not known how much personal debt he has but it is known that he has debts.
Without having any numbers, only from his behaviour and that of (really) rich people, I guess that his net worth is less than a tenth of his claimed worth.
 
I thought the right-leaning National Review put it well:

About 42 minutes into last night’s debate . . .

WALLACE: You have repeatedly criticized the vice president for not specifically calling out Antifa and other left-wing extremist groups. But are you willing tonight to condemn white supremacists and militia group and to say that they need to stand down and not add to the violence in a number of these cities as we saw in Kenosha, and as we’ve seen in Portland.

TRUMP: Sure, I’m willing to do that.

WALLACE: Are you prepared specifically to do it?

TRUMP: I would say almost everything I see is from the left wing, not from the right wing.

WALLACE: But what are you saying?

TRUMP: I’m willing to do anything. I want to see peace!

WALLACE: Well, do it, sir.

BIDEN: Say it, do it, say it!

TRUMP: What do you want to call them? Give me a name, give me a name, go ahead! Who do you want me to condemn?

WALLACE: White supremacist and right-wing militia.

TRUMP: Proud Boys, stand back and stand by. But I’ll tell you what, somebody’s got to do something about Antifa and the left because this is not a right-wing problem, this is a left-wing.

BIDEN: His own FBI Director said unlike white supremacist, Antifa is an idea not an organization-

TRUMP: Oh, you got to be kidding me!

BIDEN: -not a militia! That’s what his FBI Director said!

TRUMP: Well, then you know what, he’s wrong.

WALLACE: We’re done, sir. Moving onto the next . . .

First, notice Trump brought up the Proud Boys by name, not his rival or the moderator.

Second, notice Trump’s bafflingly stubborn refusal to say, “I denounce White supremacists and right-wing militias.” It’s as if Trump thinks everyone won’t notice, or that the viewers at home will give him some sort of credit for not going along with other people’s requests or demands. Almost everyone else in politics would calculate that any value from not denouncing white supremacists, right-wing militias, or the Proud Boys is more than offset by the damage done among other voters who abhor those groups and who will be repelled by a president who won’t denounce them by name. For some reason, Trump seems to think he can lose all the soccer moms and make up the margin among the extremes.

Third, notice Trump defenders will insist “stand back and stand by” means “stand down.” But if Trump wanted to say “stand down,” he should have said “stand down!” Say what you mean and mean what you say. The common defense of Trump’s “very fine people on both sides” comment about Charlottesville is that he meant to refer to the non-extreme Confederate statue defenders, not the violent and anti-Semitic white nationalists, and his words just came out in an awkward, unclear way that sounded like he was referring to the white nationalists. Funny how Trump’s accidental word mix-ups consistently create this impression that he doesn’t want to alienate these groups.
Source: Morning Jolt
 

Brickjectivity

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Absolutely. The military wouldn't be necessary to remove him from office. After Biden is sworn in, he is the only voice of authority the government will obey. A simple armed escort should be enough, in cuffs if he gets feisty and resists requests to leave. Trump Gets Tasered, might read the mornings headline. :)

Oh dear, what an American Disgrace, Trump is.
I can see a lot of optimism in the Democrats that he will be electored out, but I suspect that election officials are going to feel more pressure than usual this year. They'll be pressured to count quickly, to do this and do that. They'll be criticized and some may be sued.

We're going to have to rely a lot on our election officials this year. They may be under a lot of pressure. Somehow we need to make sure they feel safe and that their families are not in danger or anything like that. That is the smart thing to do if there is concern about the election results.

I have no idea how to help make sure election officials are safe, unencumbered, honest and not pressured. Hopefully there is some system in place in case people start getting upset?
 
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