Truth is not constant.

[ppp]

It was you who started that part of the discussion so you will know the answer

More evasion. You just cannot help yourself.

In what sense do you mean "wrong"? Conclusion or methodology? I have no way to evaluate your conclusion. What I take issue with is your echo chamber methodology. It is designed to arrive at your preferred conclusion irrespective of reality. It also has the benefit of absolving you from accountability for your conclusion to anyone outside of that echo chamber.

But thank you for the demonstration of my earlier point.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

In your opinion.

Yeah, part of reality are opinions, because we are in part subjective individuals. That is a result of biology. How I make sense of reality is in part a result of my history and so it is with you. That is the spiritual and in you don't like that, that is the individual result of nature and nurture.

So here is the short possible version of reality: You and the rest as "you", "and" and "the rest". Now you can't get any "lower" because then you are not representing how it works. Something - process - something. Cause - results in - effect.
The mind - the meaning - the sign/word. Something - is useful - to you.

Regards and love
Mikkel

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Can you give us an example of something that you consider a "spiritual truth?"

What is the meaning of life to you?

 

[ChristineM]

Yeah, part of reality are opinions, because we are in part subjective individuals. That is a result of biology. How I make sense of reality is in part a result of my history and so it is with you. That is the spiritual and in you don't like that, that is the individual result of nature and nurture.

So here is the short possible version of reality: You and the rest as "you", "and" and "the rest". Now you can't get any "lower" because then you are not representing how it works. Something - process - something. Cause - results in - effect.
The mind - the meaning - the sign/word. Something - is useful - to you.

Regards and love
Mikkel

Opinions are ideas, ideas may be formed by real processes and acted on with real processes but in themselves are not reality

 

[Spirit of Light]

Can you give us an example of something that you consider a "spiritual truth?"

The realization that heaven is a different dimension then the physical world, and that to gain access to that realm or dimension a human being must cultivate the mind and body. In other words, remove every impurity within our mind and body

 

[ppp]

Just to add this into the conversation - Do you think that science and what constitutes the scientific method is universal ? ( Something that would exist anywhere sentient life evolves - we could ask the same, but sub math or philosophy for science )

It's a good question. Probably...with reservations. My reservation is that we are the ones who are defining sentient, sapient, sophont, whatever. Beings that fit under the definition of sentient must necessarily have characteristics that we recognize.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

In what sense do you mean "wrong"? Conclusion or methodology? I have no way to evaluate your conclusion. What I take issue with is your echo chamber methodology. It is designed to arrive at your preferred conclusion irrespective of reality. It also has the benefit of absolving you from accountability for your conclusion to anyone outside of that echo chamber.

So, which are you taking issue with. My evaluation of your conclusion or methodology?

Take some number of version.

Please show reality without you in it? Test that and get back to us.
Only and only objective as:
-expressing or dealing with facts or conditions as perceived without distortion by personal feelings, prejudices, or interpretations
-of, relating to, or being an object, phenomenon, or condition in the realm of sensible experience independent of individual thought and perceptible by all observers
-having reality independent of the mind

Do that for 24 hours, all of you as you. Only strictly objective. Only truth as per objective.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Opinions are ideas, ideas may be formed by real processes and acted on with real processes but in themselves are not reality

That sentence is an idea.

 

[ppp]

Yeah, that can be true of any subculture, which claims the truth.
That is a standard in group psychology and doesn't only apply to religion.

And?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

And?

It also applies to some sub-cultures with the non-religious. Be there, done that. Echo-chambers are not just for religious people.
It is a psychological and sociological effect that we can all get caught in. Including me, but of course not you.

 

[ppp]

Take some number of version.

Please show reality without you in it? Test that and get back to us.
Only and only objective as:
-expressing or dealing with facts or conditions as perceived without distortion by personal feelings, prejudices, or interpretations
-of, relating to, or being an object, phenomenon, or condition in the realm of sensible experience independent of individual thought and perceptible by all observers
-having reality independent of the mind

Do that for 24 hours, all of you as you. Only strictly objective. Only truth as per objective.

If you want to have a conversation, Mikkel, I am happy to do so. But when your replies to my post are not apparent responses to the contents of my post, I am just going to shrug and move in..

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

If you want to have a conversation, Mikkel, I am happy to do so. But when your replies to my post are not apparent responses to the contents of my post, I am just going to shrug and move in..

Okay, please explain truth, evidence or what ever you claim that.

If you don't want to just ignore or ask me to do it. Then we will compare notes.

 

[ppp]

It also applies to some sub-cultures with the non-religious. Be there, done that. Echo-chambers are not just for religious people.
It is a psychological and sociological effect that we can all get caught in. Including me, but of course not you.

That is just a repetition of your previous post. You just stated two facts. What about them? You have not made any connection to my post. The post to which you were apparently replying.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

That is just a repetition of your previous post. You just stated two facts. What about them? You have not made any connection to my post. The post to which you were apparently replying.

You stated that some people live inside a bubble of rationalizing their own beliefs. Yes, we agree.

 

[ChristineM]

That sentence is an idea.

But not reality

 

[ppp]

Okay, please explain truth, evidence or what ever you claim that.

If you don't want to just ignore or ask me to do it. Then we will compare notes.

We have already been down this road, Mikkel. I said that truth is that which corresponds to reality. You said that there are problems with the theory of correspondence, and stopped there. No elaboration or explanation.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

But not reality

I give up. The idea of the unreal is itself unreal. Okay

 

[ppp]

You stated that some people live inside a bubble of rationalizing their own beliefs. Yes, we agree.

Ah. I am not used to your agreeing with me. I didn't expect it. Thanks. That's why I avoid echo chambers.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

We have already been down this road, Mikkel. I said that truth is that which corresponds to reality. You said that there are problems with the theory of correspondence, and stopped there. No elaboration or explanation.

Okay. It is late so I will be lazy:
Truth | Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy

If you don't want to read it, I get it. Then you will have to wait until later.

Regards
Mikkel

 

[ChristineM]

I give up. The idea of the unreal is itself unreal. Okay

Unrealis definitely not real, you can tell by the "un"