Truth or Comfort?

[1137]

Pretty much what I said. The meaning of your life is in your hands, it's all up to you.

I am on Amazon right now buying you hooked on phonics...want to give me a delivery address?

A subjective meaning is not a real meaning. You decided what to do with your life and do it. My meaning is to be a teacher because I have chosen to be. I cannot control what happens to me nor around me. If it was all up to me I could control what happens to me, easily accomplish anything, choose when to die without suicide, etc. I am pretty sure you have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[1137]

Tear away everything considered "objective reality," and then tear away the mental foundation for "unreal," and you're left with ... Me. And you. And there's the world.

There's comfort in it being there despite us. That there is something rather than nothing.

Sorry, it is not about objective reality it is about objective meaning and purpose. Big difference.

 

[Kathryn]

I find the truth to be comforting in the long run, even if it is uncomfortable to digest on the front end. Once I know the truth, I can adjust the way I apply that truth to my life - and hopefully I can apply good decisions in my personal life with that truth in mind, which bring comfort.

 

[Willamena]

Sorry, it is not about objective reality it is about objective meaning and purpose. Big difference.

Existentialism has its metaphysics.

In other words, there's not "no meaning" for no reason.

 

[1137]

Existentialism has its metaphysics.

Not all existentialists. In fact most are probably atheists.

 

[Willamena]

Not all existentialists. In fact most are probably atheists.

Atheists are not immune from metaphysics.

 

[1137]

Atheists are not immune from metaphysics.

Haha, very true. I fit this as well, lapse in understanding. But it doesn't change anything, it is a lack in objective meaning, not reality. I accept objective truths.

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

complete responsibility for every action...therefore your destiny and the meaning of your life is in your own hands. It's all up to you. That's comforting.

It might be comforting but it is also false (at least from my point of view).

I do not believe in free will. Schopenhauer's words: 'Man can do what he wants, but he cannot will what he wills,' accompany me in all situations throughout my life and reconcile me with the actions of others, even if they are rather painful to me. This awareness of the lack of free will keeps me from taking myself and my fellow men too seriously as acting and deciding individuals, and from losing my temper.-My Credo Albert Einstein

 

[Twilight Hue]

Definitly truth.

Not always the experience one likes to face, but keeps the feet on the ground nonetheless. I view comfort as "settling in" through the enjoyment of experiencing, yet grounded enough whenever the truth proves to be less than stellar. I try not to embellish or fabricate past the experiences if I can help it, albiet this can prove difficult.

 

[Willamena]

Haha, very true. I fit this as well, lapse in understanding. But it doesn't change anything, it is a lack in objective meaning, not reality. I accept objective truths.

Are those truths meaningful?

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

Not all existentialists. In fact most are probably atheists.

There are lots of Christian intellectuals that are also existentialists.

Jimmy Carter has been called one. Even Billy Graham struggled with it early on.

 

[Willamena]

It might be comforting but it is also false (at least from my point of view).

I do not believe in free will. Schopenhauer's words: 'Man can do what he wants, but he cannot will what he wills,' accompany me in all situations throughout my life and reconcile me with the actions of others, even if they are rather painful to me. This awareness of the lack of free will keeps me from taking myself and my fellow men too seriously as acting and deciding individuals, and from losing my temper.-My Credo Albert Einstein

Einstein wasn't an existentialist, though.

Edit:
The man who regards his own life and that of his fellow creatures as meaningless is not merely unhappy but hardly fit for life. ~Albert Einstein

 

[1137]

Are those truths meaningful?

Define meaningful. Life being meaniness for an existenstialist like me means there is no set purpose or meaning. Humans are not a unique part in some Gods plan, we just exist out of chancd. So, an objective truth like gravity exists means that I do not float into space, but it does not give life meaning.

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

Einstein wasn't an existentialist, though.

Edit:
The man who regards his own life and that of his fellow creatures as meaningless is not merely unhappy but hardly fit for life. ~Albert Einstein

Very true, I was arguing about the idea of free will. If the concept of free will falls then existentialism is absurd, there is no Either/Or.(get the pun)

A fun read on subject of free will.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/02/science/02free.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all

 

[Me Myself]

Truth.

I also speak with this in mind, and it causes me several problems more than not :ninja:

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

Define meaningful. Life being meaniness for an existenstialist like me means there is no set purpose or meaning. Humans are not a unique part in some Gods plan, we just exist out of chancd. So, an objective truth like gravity exists means that I do not float into space, but it does not give life meaning.

If you leave it at life has no meaning your a Nihilist. If You postulate that, it is you, the individual, who is solely responsible for giving meaning to life. Just like Soren Kierkegaard, then you to are an existentialist philosopher.

This is my simple view. I am sure someone on RF can show I am wrong.

 

[Willamena]

Life being meaniness for an existenstialist like me means there is no set purpose or meaning. Humans are not a unique part in some Gods plan, we just exist out of chancd. So, an objective truth like gravity exists means that I do not float into space, but it does not give life meaning.

But you still allow that the meaning of an objective truth is capable of shaping the world, despite you.

Define meaningful.

"Meaning" is a successful attachment or relationship drawn between a word (a thought in our heads) and something in the world that it is given to represent. Much of our young lives were spend learning to associate bits of the world with a proper symbol, in our various written languages, that would convey to others, and to ourselves, "what's really out there." The whole world is sufficiently represented in such symbols.

The "gravity" that exists and means that you don't float into space--that entire sentence and each of its constituent parts are meaningful. The word "gravity" represents something in reality, objective reality. It isn't itself given to be reality. In how we learn languages, there is a separation built in between the world that we know in thought and what we take to be reality. The former (the representation of our individual worlds of thought) is relegated to be unreal, however much it is allowed to reveal something about reality.

Existentialism owes its name to its emphasis on “existence”. For all the thinkers mentioned above, regardless of their differences, existence indicates the special way in which human beings are in the world, in contrast with other beings. For the existentialists, the human being is “more” than what it is: not only does the human being know that it is but, on the basis of this fundamental knowledge, this being can choose how it will “use” its own being, and thus how it will relate to the world. “Existence” is thus closely related to freedom in the sense of an active engagement in the world. This metaphysical theory regarding human freedom leads into a distinct approach to ontology, i.e., the study of the different ways of being.

... The key insight that defines and unites existentialism as a philosophical position, despite all the divergences between the authors included under that denomination, is the emphasis on the radical nature of human freedom, and the metaphysical and ontological imports of that freedom. The metaphysical and ontological significance of freedom precedes its moral, ethical, and political aspects, since the ways in which human beings “hook up” to the world should be considered before issues of duty or justice. For existentialism, human freedom grounds the very possibility of knowledge in its deepest form, i.e., the capacity of human beings to reveal something about reality. A Christian existentialist like Gabriel Marcel interprets the metaphysical reach of human freedom in terms of the capacity and responsibility of individuals to make themselves “available” to the mystery of their participation in creation, in particular by responding to the appeal of the great “Thou” (see in particular Marcel 1960b). Atheistic existentialists (Camus, Sartre, de Beauvoir, Merleau-Ponty), on the contrary, do not ground freedom in faith and the hope of accessing the transcendent; instead they emphasise the difficulty of assuming that freedom, since nothing can ensure that our attempts at finding meaning in the world will actually yield something objectively present in it. But in all cases freedom is the ultimate ground of human beings' capacity to relate to the world.

Existentialist Aesthetics (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)

That's the metaphysics.

 

[1137]

Very true, I was arguing about the idea of free will. If the concept of free will falls then existentialism is absurd, there is no Either/Or.(get the pun)

A fun read on subject of free will.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/02/science/02free.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all

False. Many other existentialists would criticize me, but I accept determinism. I also agree that an act is "free" if it's in accordance with ones nature. We still must take responsbilty for our actions and destiny, unless you want to eliminate all system of law....

Illusion can be important. I assume there is a wall near you? Well that wall is really made of many separate particles which themselves are actually vibrations, so that wall is not even solid! If you disagree that illusion is important, why would you not charge at full speed head first into that wall?

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

Truth vs Comfort... I voted for truth.

"It is better to be a human being dissatisfied than a pig satisfied; better to be Socrates dissatisfied than a fool satisfied. And if the fool, or the pig, are of a different opinion, it is because they only know their own side of the question. The other party to the comparison knows both sides."-John Stuart Mill

 

[1137]

But you still allow that the meaning of an objective truth is capable of shaping the world, despite you.


"Meaning" is a successful attachment or relationship drawn between a word (a thought in our heads) and something in the world that it is given to represent. Much of our young lives were spend learning to associate bits of the world with a proper symbol, in our various written languages, that would convey to others, and to ourselves, "what's really out there." The whole world is sufficiently represented in such symbols.

The "gravity" that exists and means that you don't float into space--that entire sentence and each of its constituent parts are meaningful. The word "gravity" represents something in reality, objective reality. It isn't itself given to be reality. In how we learn languages, there is a separation built in between the world that we know in thought and what we take to be reality. The former (the representation of our individual worlds of thought) is relegated to be unreal, however much it is allowed to reveal something about reality.


That's the metaphysics.

I am not even sure what your point is... Existentialism deals with human existence. Existence precedes essence. Existentialism says OUR EXISTENCE is without purpose. There is no set meaning to human beings existing, we create it. That's it. Of course things mean something, but existentialism is saying that we are not made with a purpose (and not made at all).