Why does existentialism say that our existence is without purpose? Why do they think that?
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Truth or Comfort?
- Thread starter 1137
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Existence precedes essence. When man needed something to cut with, they designed a knife for that purpose and then made it. Man is not like this, we do not have a shared, objective purpose. This is almost self evident. Personally I think theism amd existentialism cannot go together, because in my opinion nothing natural was created at all. There is no objective meaning. Life here exists because of chance in the chaos that is this universe, maybe even more so than we understand (here's the metaphysics).
Essence is those thoughts in our head, the meanings. Existence is reality "out there" accessible by those thoughts about "out there." Whether you call it "the creation" or an objective reality "defined by chance in the chaos that is this universe," the same ideas are utilized by existential philosophers. And they didn't arrive at these ideas by chance.
"Self-evident" is just another way of saying: I see it, but I don't have to put any thought into why I see it.
Wannabe Yogi
Well-Known Member
Well if it works for you, Great !!!
The basic way to define an existentialist is:
A central proposition of existentialism is that existence precedes essence, which means that the actual life of the individual is what constitutes what could be called his or her "essence" instead of there being a predetermined essence that defines what it is to be a human. Thus, human beings through their own consciousness create their own values and determine a meaning to their life.-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Existentialism
How can you create your own values and determine your meaning in life if you don't have free will ? I guess we must all go back to
If you wish to converse with me, define your terms. -Voltaire
You have done that so I must except.
I am a Hindu. This is what we all argue about. I will spare you our details so your thread won't go off track.
Those thoughts in my head exist because of my brain. Existence first.
Well since I have explained why this doesn't fit, does it? Self-evident means it is ridiculously obvious. Holding onto the idea that we exist for a reason is comfort over truth, did you vote accordingly?
Ok, obviously you missed what I said. Predetermined essence is like a God who creates us for a specific purpose. The subconscious, our genes, the reactions in our head, these are still us. We can choose not to act in accordance with that nature. I have depression, I have not killed myself, therefore I am free. I have addiction, I am sober, therefore I am free. An abused child from a horrible family and violent genes chooses to become a serial killer. There is a difference between heavy influence and predetermination.
There is not a complete lack of free will. We have a "handful" of choices based on previous events, our genes, how we were raised, etc. I cannot fly because humans did not evolve with wings. I cannot be of darker skin color because I descend from Caucasians. I cannot not have depression because it is inherited. What I choose to do as a flightless, white, depressed male is up to me. It is comfortable to believe that we can do whatever we want and not be held responsible. I choose to take responsibility no matter how much influence. Even if a man is sticking a gun in your mouth telling you to rob a bank, you can still say no.
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Erebus
Well-Known Member
While ignorance might be bliss I think it's better to know what you're up against. Even awful truths can often be overcome and IMO ignoring them can cause more pain in the long run.
For the record I don't see no afterlife as a matter of truth over comfort. Ultimately nobody knows what comes after death and belief in non-existence (as opposed to simply being skeptical about the possibility of an afterlife) is just as much a case of choosing comfort as believing in heaven. For all we know our afterlives may involve an eternity of torment no matter how we lived our lives and that's not a possibility many people want to consider.
For the record I don't see no afterlife as a matter of truth over comfort. Ultimately nobody knows what comes after death and belief in non-existence (as opposed to simply being skeptical about the possibility of an afterlife) is just as much a case of choosing comfort as believing in heaven. For all we know our afterlives may involve an eternity of torment no matter how we lived our lives and that's not a possibility many people want to consider.
Me Myself
Back to my username
Pretty much why I always choose truth.
Yes, "existence first" is the cry of the existentialist, but it's not because those thoughts exist because of your brain. We do not know anything but those thoughts--even "brain" is those thoughts--that's why the existentialist is crying.
I voted "truth."
No--you are, in the way that you came to that conclusion.
I'm just sitting here, being the existentialist.
It's not a dogma, just a field of philosophy.
How do you conclude that I've said that?
Existentialism follows emotions, they believe in a meaning to life formed from emotion. They may accept it as subjective, as it is, but they are believing in something for comfort, and it isn't true. Having emotions = having beliefs.
Not really, Existentialists is the plural form of Existentialist, as you are not the only Existentialist. It's a philosophy, therefore Existentialism has Existentialists.
She is suggesting you technically can't be sure of it's existence (I believe)
And she'd be 100% right
Wow... I don't even no what to say to that. Google "brain surgery" or something.
Right... By saying the brain exists I am saying it is not real. You're reaching now. The brain creates conaciousness, thoughts, emotion, etc. Even in this case existence precedes essence. But that is not even what that phrase means. You can believe that we are super special beinga created for a super special purpose, but you have to change your vote.
I'm just saying that "existence precedes essence" means something else, to a lot of people. I'll leave it at that.
And I'm not changing my vote.
Wasn't to you, obviously.
Ok let's just go over this. Existentialism says there is no set purpose. We are not made, and we do not have a reason. The universe is chaotic and uncaring. We are all isolated, trapped in our own minds so never really make connections and such (i have a thread on this). Existance is pretty much a blank slate. You have two options: either commit suicide or create meaning for this life, like paining the canvas. It has nothing to do with comfort. I know life os meaningless, I know I will die, everyone I love will die, my accomplishments will fade away... I just choose to take this chance of being alive and make something of it. What else is there to do? Plenty of time to be dead.
So I suppose all nihilists are the same as well? In that case all the respect I've had for you on this forum is gone, because the nihilists I've known couldn't pay for my respect. Obviously it's all individual but according to your logic...
I suspect this may be because you are selecting the lesser of two discomforts. You can't wrap your head around afterlife concepts, and that causes you greater cognitive dissonance than the choice of rejecting them. The discomfort of believing in something you think is a lie is greater than the discomfort of believing in what you think is the truth. Sort of a no-brainer, really, and I'd hazard to say the vast majority of people are more comfortable believing in what they think is true than what they think is a lie. This is why I think this entire thread presents a false dichotomy. People simply do not hold beliefs over long periods of time that cause them cognitive dissonance. They find some way to resolve it, often by finding comfort in what they perceive to be the truth of things.
I'm just saying that "existence precedes essence" means something else, to a lot of people. I'll leave it at that.
And I'm not changing my vote.
Existence precedes essence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia