"Truth" What is it?

[Kathryn]

So why all the whining and complaining about personally perceived truths and untruths??


Which bears a repeating of my question from post #22 which has been thus far ignored:

So all religious truth is basically nothing more than people making guesses and hoping to hell they are right?
​

I'm not complaining. I'm debating and discussing.

As for your question, I'll answer it with a direct answer -unlike the pseudo answers I've been receiving on this thread and the other.

Truth is truth, regardless of whether it is called "religious truth" or some other phrase. Some religious beliefs are probably true. If some religious beliefs are true, then beliefs which directly contradict those are probably not true.

As for the belief or lack of a belief in God - whether we believe in God or not in no way alters whether or not the existance of God is truth.

 

[Kathryn]

And just so you know - my husband is working out of town today so I've got a couple of "girl movies" to watch. So I'm going to watch them now, and will not be responding to this thread or the other one about proselytizing for awhile.

Just wanted to let you know that in case you thought you had me stumped somehow. No such luck - I'm simply more interested in watching a movie with subtitles than continuing to argue about this topic.

Have at it.

 

[McBell]

I'm not complaining. I'm debating and discussing.

As for your question, I'll answer it with a direct answer -unlike the pseudo answers I've been receiving on this thread and the other.

Truth is truth, regardless of whether it is called "religious truth" or some other phrase. Some religious beliefs are probably true. If some religious beliefs are true, then beliefs which directly contradict those are probably not true.

As for the belief or lack of a belief in God - whether we believe in God or not in no way alters whether or not the existance of God is truth.

Seems to me that your whole argument rests on thinking a perceived contradiction has to equate to some black and white idea of true and untrue.

Now since not a single bit of it can be verified, how do you know that both cannot be true?

 

[Draka]

There is a difference between a perceived "spiritual/religious truth" and a "secular truth". One deals with concepts of an overlaying spiritual realm untouchable by science and the other deals with what can be studied and observed and tested by science. Much like there are two usages of the word "theory" there are more than one usage of the word "truth".

Religious/spiritual "truth" cannot be tested or analytically studied and verified. It is an idea, a conclusion based upon personal experiences or teachings resulting in beliefs unverifiable by science. Therefore, any "truth" is subjective and personal. Even perceived "absolute truths" are merely ideas about the "whole" and are still subjective at best.

Not that any of that is bad, for it is just human nature to contemplate our surroundings and our purpose and so on. It makes sense for people to have varying ideas. It's when those ideas become more than "truths" but "facts" in our heads that problems with others arise.

 

[Penumbra]

There is a difference between a perceived "spiritual/religious truth" and a "secular truth". One deals with concepts of an overlaying spiritual realm untouchable by science and the other deals with what can be studied and observed and tested by science. Much like there are two usages of the word "theory" there are more than one usage of the word "truth".

Religious/spiritual "truth" cannot be tested or analytically studied and verified. It is an idea, a conclusion based upon personal experiences or teachings resulting in beliefs unverifiable by science. Therefore, any "truth" is subjective and personal. Even perceived "absolute truths" are merely ideas about the "whole" and are still subjective at best.

Not that any of that is bad, for it is just human nature to contemplate our surroundings and our purpose and so on. It makes sense for people to have varying ideas. It's when those ideas become more than "truths" but "facts" in our heads that problems with others arise.

Religious/spiritual claims can be studied or tested if they are proposed to interact with the physical world.

 

[Pegg]

Religiously speaking, people have different concepts of what "truth" is. There are "personal truths" and "absolute truths", or some use the words subjective and objective respectively. As long as people are working from different definitions in regard to their beliefs, is it any wonder that arguments go round and round?

So what is your definition of "truth" and how does it play into your religion?


Reminder, I'm asking for the definition of the word "truth", not what your "truth" is or what you consider the "truth" to be.

truth is the reality.

In my religion, the bible alone is the basis for truth.

 

[Mister Emu]

How exactly are you gauging accuracy?

According to reality.

Wouldn't that also make it verifiable?

Not necessarily... there is a difference between something being accurate, and being able to determine that something is accurate.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Just what is the truth anyway? Something beyond a reasonable doubt? I think "the truth" is subjective at best.

 

[Pegg]

Just what is the truth anyway? Something beyond a reasonable doubt? I think "the truth" is subjective at best.

our opinions on truth will certainly vary and be subjective based on our own experiences. To me it is true that horseriding is exhilarating...to someone else it may be anything but that.

Spiritual truth is not something we can devise...it must come from God. That is why, when jesus was asked the question "What is Truth", his reply was "Gods word is truth"


So it is subjective depending on the subject matter. In terms of spiritual matters, only God can honestly define truth. Hence the scripture "Do not put your trust in nobles, nor in the son of earthling man to whom no salvation belongs. His spirit goes out, he goes back to the ground and in that day his thoughts do perish"

 

[McBell]

Spiritual truth is not something we can devise...it must come from God. That is why, when jesus was asked the question "What is Truth", his reply was "Gods word is truth"

Unfortunately this is nothing more than opinion.
Not truth.

So it is subjective depending on the subject matter. In terms of spiritual matters, only God can honestly define truth. Hence the scripture "Do not put your trust in nobles, nor in the son of earthling man to whom no salvation belongs. His spirit goes out, he goes back to the ground and in that day his thoughts do perish"

More opinion.

Unless of course you can verify any of it...?

 

[McBell]

truth is the reality.

Ok.

In my religion, the bible alone is the basis for truth.

Thus the difference between truth and religious truth.

Out of curiosity, do you believe the Bible tells you that the Bible is is the basis for truth?

 

[Draka]

our opinions on truth will certainly vary and be subjective based on our own experiences. To me it is true that horseriding is exhilarating...to someone else it may be anything but that.

Spiritual truth is not something we can devise...it must come from God. That is why, when jesus was asked the question "What is Truth", his reply was "Gods word is truth"


So it is subjective depending on the subject matter. In terms of spiritual matters, only God can honestly define truth. Hence the scripture "Do not put your trust in nobles, nor in the son of earthling man to whom no salvation belongs. His spirit goes out, he goes back to the ground and in that day his thoughts do perish"

Though that is only truth for those who take the bible as more than a just another mythology book. If one does not regard the bible as anything more than that then it holds no truth for them and their truth will come from something else. You choose to take the bible a certain way and that is why you believe it holds truth for you. Others hold it equally in a different way and, therefore, it holds no truth for them.

So then the question becomes, who determines what holds truth and what doesn't and how do they determine that? There is no, and can't be, a consensus. Which makes all "truths" subjective and personal. Agree?

 

[NemisisQ]

Religiously speaking, people have different concepts of what "truth" is. There are "personal truths" and "absolute truths", or some use the words subjective and objective respectively. As long as people are working from different definitions in regard to their beliefs, is it any wonder that arguments go round and round?

So what is your definition of "truth" and how does it play into your religion?


Reminder, I'm asking for the definition of the word "truth", not what your "truth" is or what you consider the "truth" to be.

In my religion, buddhist, Truth is found in how we see ourselves, judge, and define when we act. The truth my religion is self-truth, to not deny self, and to find a way to accept.

 

[Father Heathen]

According to reality.


Not necessarily... there is a difference between something being accurate, and being able to determine that something is accurate.

Give me a good example.

 

[Father Heathen]

In my religion, the bible alone is the basis for truth.

Well, go ahead, support your claim.

 

[Mister Emu]

Give me a good example.

The trick question... What was the tallest mountain on earth before Mount Everest was discovered?

Mount Everest.

Things are true, or not, regardless of whether or not we know about them.

 

[sky dancer]

Truth is the nature of mind, luminous, open, and aware, unfettered by conditions or conditioning.

 

[McBell]

Things are true, or not, regardless of whether or not we know about them.

Who is arguing against that?

Seems to me that this is nothing more than a strawman.

So basically religion is nothing more than people making guesses then hoping like hell they are right?

 

[McBell]

The trick question... What was the tallest mountain on earth before Mount Everest was discovered?

Mount Everest.

So you do not even have a bad example?

 

[Reverend Rick]

So basically religion is nothing more than people making guesses then hoping like hell they are right?

That could be one definition of faith. It is a bit harsh however.

Religion is people passing down oral traditions and later on hoping they got them right when they put it to paper. Where all this divinely inspired stuff came from, I will never know.

My problem is with what was omitted. I believe there was an agenda and part of that agenda was to put women in their place for lack of better words.

Then there is the authorship issues and what where the intent of these words. My guess is, the intent was to unite as many of the masses as possible to think like they wanted them to think.

One can blindly follow words in a book and believe they are divinely inspired word from God.

I believe anything we read has been censured or perverted to one degree or another.

I'm not even sure it is possible to learn the truth, but we do live in enlightening times with the dead sea scroll discovery as one good example.

Faith is a good thing. I'm not so sure about blind faith however.

The bottom line is, if we knew and could prove everything, faith would not be necessary.

If you want to throw stones at people of faith, it would be a good idea not to reside in a glass house, (not my words but goods ones to consider).

My take on this is, when scientists can create life and start whole ecosystems on other planets or even discover life anywhere else than earth, I will become impressed.

Right now, everyone has more opinions than they do facts. From my advantage point, we all have faith in something to one degree or another.