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Tucker Carlson, Colonel Douglas Macgregor, The Ukraine War
- Thread starter Colt
- Start date
I read the transcript .... and as was stated by others ... no lies or falsehoods to be found --- "Its not that hard"
for some of us to understand what an argument is .. perhaps we can get a few together and do a lesson .. but, for now .. looks like Doug's critical analysis of the situation is the most accurate.
EconGuy
Active Member
I read the transcript .... and as was stated by others ... no lies or falsehoods to be found --- "Its not that hard"
Hiding out in tree tops and shouting out rude names is not an argument friend.. Told you .. McBeth was spouting falsehood ... and that don't constitute much of an argument either. You have been drinking the spiked Kool-aid Brother Eco -- hearken to the testimony of Colonel Doug to sober up
EconGuy
Active Member
Hiding out in tree tops and shouting out rude names is not an argument friend.. Told you .. McBeth was spouting falsehood ... and that don't constitute much of an argument either. You have been drinking the spiked Kool-aid Brother Eco -- hearken to the testimony of Colonel Doug to sober up
I don't engage in conversations with people who don't appear to hold conversations in good faith.
McBeth has fantastic credentials and respect. He's not a partisan and he explains position using his significant expirence or offers evidence when needed, an he gave Carlson's guest more of the benefit of the doubt than he probably deserved.
But, your argument is also extremely compelling. Let's see if I can sum it up..
"Nuh Huh"
Now if I'm rude or dismissive, it's becuase I don't think, based on your conversations here, that you are any more than a provocateur and we'd all be better served talking to ourselves or each other than waste time arguing with you.
So, please, impress us all with a well thought out argument with facts and evidence, or please stop wasting time.
Respectfully
EG
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A) "Conversations in good faith" B)"Rude or dismissive" C)"nothing more than a provacateur"
Posting cartoon invective .. as your last two posts - repeatitive silliness .. qualifies for B and C .. but not A .. 100% on the projection scale thus far.
I addressed some of the content of the Video you posted .. despite your major failure to cite a falsehood from the OP Video ..
I even helped out and removed the requirement for you to cite the 400,000 dead claim .. as I have heard Doug say this .. you see now what "Good Faith" looks like .. something foreign to you though ..
McBeth was a big falsehood on this front .. as this is a likely figure .. justified and upheld by many commentators .. in addition to Doug .. but all admitting that the Fog of war reduces certainty.
What has not been reduced here is the credibilty of Doug .. who himself stated .. this number was from his sources .. but states justification as to how this number was arrived at.. by his sources.
McBeth is some military Vet with a big mouth making unsupported claims .. and may well be on the Payroll .. but regardless .. a massive fail on the ridiculous claims coming out from the pundits crying Lies - Falsehood .. or false narrative. It is the Western media trumpeting the false narrative propaganda tropes .. and you who went along with the rope-a-dope.
Copernicus
Industrial Strength Linguist
Did you find a transcript that you could read instead of watching the video? I would like to see the transcript. Can you post a link to it? I searched and couldn't find one.
Did the transcript not mention MacGregor's false identification of a weapon system as being a Stinger missile launcher? That was surely a falsehood, albeit, as McBeth said, not an intentional lie. McBeth had a ranking system for how likely MacGregor's statements were to be true, and most of the ones he highlighted came out on the low end of his scale, based on his expertise.
Do you understand that an invalid argument can come to a true conclusion? Saying that an argument is invalid is not saying that the conclusion is false. If you don't understand that, then you don't understand what a logical argument is.
Better than you, apparently. Why do confuse conclusions based on fallacies with falsehoods? A logical argument whose premises contradict each other can be used to prove any conclusion true or false. It is possible to use an invalid argument to support a conclusion that happens to be true.
I would like to know something.
Why do Americans call Russian tycoons oligarchs whereas a character like Soros is called philanthropist?
Either you call Soros an oligarch too, or you call none oligarch.
Doublestandardism? No thank you.
Why do Americans call Russian tycoons oligarchs whereas a character like Soros is called philanthropist?
Either you call Soros an oligarch too, or you call none oligarch.
Doublestandardism? No thank you.
ImmortalFlame
Woke gremlin
Once again, you've missed the point of my argument.
Do you admit that you may be engaging in some "confirmation bias" here? Simple question: do you think Putin's invasion is a GOOD thing? If not, then why on earth would you ever think the argument "Putin's invasion isn't THAT bad" is defensible?
ImmortalFlame
Woke gremlin
Don't patronise me, Luke. I'm going to be around as long as people like you continue lying and spreading propaganda about this invasion. I get that you want me to leave the debate, because I keep exposing you (seriously, check any thread where you talk about Maidan - you brazenly lie about the facts leading up the protests, and when I provided sourced responses that demonstrate that you lied you either fail to respond or just disappear). But it's not going to happen.
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ImmortalFlame
Woke gremlin
Okay. I'm just going to ignore you from this point forward. You've done nothing but muddy the water, and I have no time for this kind of hand-wringing, misdirecting, pseudo-enlightened nonsense.
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ImmortalFlame
Woke gremlin
War crimes in the Russian invasion of Ukraine - Wikipedia
The argument that this is somehow a "relatively gentle invasion" is about as convincing as me abducting you and tying you up in my basement, and when people call into question the morality of this act I defend it by saying "It could have been worse! I could have tied them to a torture rack."
So, what's your endgame here? Is Putin's invasion justified or not?
EconGuy
Active Member
America is a big place and just for the record its rude painting them all with such a broad brush (the irony of that stament isn't lost on me)
That said, many of us are fully aware the situation here in the US and the current state of plutocracy in the US. That said, there's still some independence within the US judiciary system that is probably the single biggest impediment to the US becoming Russia 2.0, or Russia with better toys.
But seriously, the US public also believes deeply in its Constitution and those two things make it hard for the Olagarchs here to have as much power as they do other places.
Certain oligarchs shouldn't even be allowed into the Brussels institutions.
In Europe, unfortunately there are too many technocrats who roll red carpets at shady characters.
I hope things change here because the EU belongs to the commoners, not to the élites.
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But you have time for posts like this, do you? Fine by me.
Colt
Well-Known Member
Oh, we can't really post on RF what 1/2 of America calls Soros! The Left loves him here becuse he funds their evil projects! IMOP! But you are correct, he's just as much an oligarch as the Russian billionaires, but he's less likely to accidently fall out of his office window!
By the way...I listened to the entire interview.
He's great...courageous and aware that he could say more, but he can't.
I have heard those who refer to America's political system as an "oligarchy," even long before Soros came on the scene.
Some of it may be due to American exceptionalism. There are many who believe that whatever may happen in some other countries "couldn't possibly happen here in America."
I was commenting the interview.
They say Zelenskyy was funded by an oligarch.
But when we say the Clintons are funded by Soros, they say it deals with a benefactor.
I think the ugly thing is that all these rich people stay safe, sending commoners to die to protect their geopolitical interests.
wellwisher
Well-Known Member
We need to create proper perspective for the Ukrainian and Russian war, and not ignore the past. Under the Obama Administration, there was a reset button between Russia and the USA. The reset was about creating friendly relationships as allies. Russia then invades and takes over Crimea, with Obama not acting or nipping this in the bud. I wonder what the deal was?
Trump wins the election. The Democrats run the Russian Collusion Coup scam, supposedly between Russia and Trump. Although this was perfect timing for Putin, if the collusion was true, Putin does not invade anything under Trump. This was very strange to me. It appears Trump may have been leading Putin, based on the final history. It was not as the Left had claimed. The Trump leading Putin data better satisfied history.
Biden takes office and now the winds of war are in the air. Biden does not take any early preemptive measures including diplomacy, but allows the invasion of Russia into Ukraine. Biden was part of the reset and Putin waits until Trump is long gone and his reset buddy; Biden is in charge. Putin knows the Left will take bribes.
Now we have invested so much, like the failed banks due to the Democrat created mortgage crisis; loan to people who will default, that we now have to keep bailing out Ukraine, since this war is now too big to fail. Ukraine is now a money pit for Democrat skim. Biden was sending money without book keeping, so it was easy to skim.
Colonel Douglas MacGreger, who had been a fighting Colonel sums up the situation. Biden has installed DEI in the military which is not based on the merit and discipline needed, to have a solid fighting force. Biden has made the US military less of a deterrent to end the war with Russia, so the war can continue.
Russia now has seasoned armies, while the USA is scaring away new recruits with DEI officers over their heads, making leadership a function of shoe size, without battle experience a factor. Biden and Russian Collusion needs to be investigated since Biden took bribes from Russia, as well as Ukraine. Both have potential black mail leverage over Biden and other the Democrats. Ending the war may cause the cat to leave the bag. The warmonger and opportunists Democrats need to perpetuate this war, until at least through the next election cycle, which they are tampering with, and then use propaganda to make it go away; ideal scenario.
There may need to start an impeachment inquiry of Biden, so we can call all types of witnesses, that now can stay under the radar. An impeachment inquiry is not an impeachment, but an investigation to see if an impeachment is warranted. This type of investigation has teeth and will make it harder to slow walk damming evidence under risk of jail time. The swamp cannot keep doing the laptop two step since an impeachment inquiry has teeth and will bite crooks.
Trump wins the election. The Democrats run the Russian Collusion Coup scam, supposedly between Russia and Trump. Although this was perfect timing for Putin, if the collusion was true, Putin does not invade anything under Trump. This was very strange to me. It appears Trump may have been leading Putin, based on the final history. It was not as the Left had claimed. The Trump leading Putin data better satisfied history.
Biden takes office and now the winds of war are in the air. Biden does not take any early preemptive measures including diplomacy, but allows the invasion of Russia into Ukraine. Biden was part of the reset and Putin waits until Trump is long gone and his reset buddy; Biden is in charge. Putin knows the Left will take bribes.
Now we have invested so much, like the failed banks due to the Democrat created mortgage crisis; loan to people who will default, that we now have to keep bailing out Ukraine, since this war is now too big to fail. Ukraine is now a money pit for Democrat skim. Biden was sending money without book keeping, so it was easy to skim.
Colonel Douglas MacGreger, who had been a fighting Colonel sums up the situation. Biden has installed DEI in the military which is not based on the merit and discipline needed, to have a solid fighting force. Biden has made the US military less of a deterrent to end the war with Russia, so the war can continue.
Russia now has seasoned armies, while the USA is scaring away new recruits with DEI officers over their heads, making leadership a function of shoe size, without battle experience a factor. Biden and Russian Collusion needs to be investigated since Biden took bribes from Russia, as well as Ukraine. Both have potential black mail leverage over Biden and other the Democrats. Ending the war may cause the cat to leave the bag. The warmonger and opportunists Democrats need to perpetuate this war, until at least through the next election cycle, which they are tampering with, and then use propaganda to make it go away; ideal scenario.
There may need to start an impeachment inquiry of Biden, so we can call all types of witnesses, that now can stay under the radar. An impeachment inquiry is not an impeachment, but an investigation to see if an impeachment is warranted. This type of investigation has teeth and will make it harder to slow walk damming evidence under risk of jail time. The swamp cannot keep doing the laptop two step since an impeachment inquiry has teeth and will bite crooks.
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