Turning to G-d does not stall progress of science. Does it ?

[paarsurrey]

Sorry, didn't make myself clear - I'm interested to know whether you believe that there are other truthful religions out there that are not associated with the Messengers and Prophets named in the Qur'an.

It is not essential that proper name of a messenger/prophet is mentioned in Quran, Islam enjoins in Quran to believe in all the messengers/prophets of G-d. Denial of one truthful messenger/prophet is denial of all of them. Right, please?

Regards
___________
[4:165]وَ رُسُلًا قَدۡ قَصَصۡنٰہُمۡ عَلَیۡکَ مِنۡ قَبۡلُ وَ رُسُلًا لَّمۡ نَقۡصُصۡہُمۡ عَلَیۡکَ ؕ وَ کَلَّمَ اللّٰہُ مُوۡسٰی تَکۡلِیۡمًا ﴿۱۶۵﴾ۚ
And We sent some Messengers whom We have already mentioned to thee and some Messengers whom We have not mentioned to thee — and Allah spoke to Moses particularly —
[11:60] وَ تِلۡکَ عَادٌ ۟ۙ جَحَدُوۡا بِاٰیٰتِ رَبِّہِمۡ وَ عَصَوۡا رُسُلَہٗ وَ اتَّبَعُوۡۤا اَمۡرَ کُلِّ جَبَّارٍ عَنِیۡدٍ ﴿۶۰﴾
And these were ‘Ad. They denied the Signs of their Lord and disobeyed His Messengers and followed the bidding of every haughty enemy of truth.
[25:38] وَ قَوۡمَ نُوۡحٍ لَّمَّا کَذَّبُوا الرُّسُلَ اَغۡرَقۡنٰہُمۡ وَ جَعَلۡنٰہُمۡ لِلنَّاسِ اٰیَۃً ؕ وَ اَعۡتَدۡنَا لِلظّٰلِمِیۡنَ عَذَابًا اَلِیۡمًا ﴿ۚۖ۳۸﴾
And as to the people of Noah when they rejected the Messengers, We drowned them, and We made them a Sign for mankind. And We have prepared a painful punishment for the wrongdoers.

 

[The_Fisher_King]

It is not essential that proper name of a messenger/prophet is mentioned in Quran, Islam enjoins in Quran to believe in all the messengers/prophets of G-d. Denial of one truthful messenger/prophet is denial of all of them. Right, please?

Regards
___________
[4:165]وَ رُسُلًا قَدۡ قَصَصۡنٰہُمۡ عَلَیۡکَ مِنۡ قَبۡلُ وَ رُسُلًا لَّمۡ نَقۡصُصۡہُمۡ عَلَیۡکَ ؕ وَ کَلَّمَ اللّٰہُ مُوۡسٰی تَکۡلِیۡمًا ﴿۱۶۵﴾ۚ
And We sent some Messengers whom We have already mentioned to thee and some Messengers whom We have not mentioned to thee — and Allah spoke to Moses particularly —
[11:60] وَ تِلۡکَ عَادٌ ۟ۙ جَحَدُوۡا بِاٰیٰتِ رَبِّہِمۡ وَ عَصَوۡا رُسُلَہٗ وَ اتَّبَعُوۡۤا اَمۡرَ کُلِّ جَبَّارٍ عَنِیۡدٍ ﴿۶۰﴾
And these were ‘Ad. They denied the Signs of their Lord and disobeyed His Messengers and followed the bidding of every haughty enemy of truth.
[25:38] وَ قَوۡمَ نُوۡحٍ لَّمَّا کَذَّبُوا الرُّسُلَ اَغۡرَقۡنٰہُمۡ وَ جَعَلۡنٰہُمۡ لِلنَّاسِ اٰیَۃً ؕ وَ اَعۡتَدۡنَا لِلظّٰلِمِیۡنَ عَذَابًا اَلِیۡمًا ﴿ۚۖ۳۸﴾
And as to the people of Noah when they rejected the Messengers, We drowned them, and We made them a Sign for mankind. And We have prepared a painful punishment for the wrongdoers.

Right, but how do you know (for sure) if a (purported) Messenger or Prophet is really a Messenger or Prophet if they are not named in the Qur'an or the authentic Hadiths?

 

[paarsurrey]

Right, but how do you know (for sure) if a (purported) Messenger or Prophet is really a Messenger or Prophet if they are not named in the Qur'an or the authentic Hadiths?

Quran is a book of systems; it opens up if pondered on its verses.
With the help of life accounts of messengers/prophets of G-d whose proper names have been mentioned in Quran we can get to the truth of those whose proper names have not been given in Quran, for sure.
First we take the truthful religious leaders of the great religions of the world. Right, please?*
Jesus and Moses, they gave prophecies of the coming of messenger/prophet Muhammad.
They could not have given such prophecies on their own if they had not been told by G-d. Right, please?**
We get the criteria from the above from Quran that any ancient truthful religious leader who got a word of prophecy of coming of Muhammad from G-d was himself a truthful prophet/messenger of G-d, for sure. Right, please?

Regards
_______________
*[13:18]
اَنۡزَلَ مِنَ السَّمَآءِ مَآءً فَسَالَتۡ اَوۡدِیَۃٌۢ بِقَدَرِہَا فَاحۡتَمَلَ السَّیۡلُ زَبَدًا رَّابِیًا ؕ وَ مِمَّا یُوۡقِدُوۡنَ عَلَیۡہِ فِی النَّارِ ابۡتِغَآءَ حِلۡیَۃٍ اَوۡ مَتَاعٍ زَبَدٌ مِّثۡلُہٗ ؕ کَذٰلِکَ یَضۡرِبُ اللّٰہُ الۡحَقَّ وَ الۡبَاطِلَ ۬ؕ فَاَمَّا الزَّبَدُ فَیَذۡہَبُ جُفَآءً ۚ وَ اَمَّا مَا یَنۡفَعُ النَّاسَ فَیَمۡکُثُ فِی الۡاَرۡضِ ؕ کَذٰلِکَ یَضۡرِبُ اللّٰہُ الۡاَمۡثَالَ ﴿ؕ۱۸﴾
He sends down water from the sky, so that valleys flow according to their measure, and the flood bears on its surface swelling foam. And from that which they heat in the fire, seeking to make ornaments or utensils, comes out a foam similar to it. Thus does Allah illustrate truth and falsehood. Now, as to the foam, it goes away as rubbish, . Thus does Allah set forth parables.but as to that which benefits men, it stays on the earth
**[[72:27]
عٰلِمُ الۡغَیۡبِ فَلَا یُظۡہِرُ عَلٰی غَیۡبِہٖۤ اَحَدًا ﴿ۙ۲۷﴾
He is the Knower of the unseen; and He reveals not His secrets to any one,
[72:28]
اِلَّا مَنِ ارۡتَضٰی مِنۡ رَّسُوۡلٍ فَاِنَّہٗ یَسۡلُکُ مِنۡۢ بَیۡنِ یَدَیۡہِ وَ مِنۡ خَلۡفِہٖ رَصَدًا ﴿ۙ۲۸﴾
Except to him whom He chooses, namely a Messenger of His. And then He causes an escort of guarding angels to go before him and behind him,

 

[The_Fisher_King]

First we take the truthful religious leaders of the great religions of the world. Right, please?*
Jesus and Moses, they gave prophecies of the coming of messenger/prophet Muhammad.

We get the criteria from the above from Quran that any ancient truthful religious leader who got a word of prophecy of coming of Muhammad from G-d was himself a truthful prophet/messenger of G-d, for sure. Right, please?

I'm personally highly sceptical of this practice of trying to find prophecies of the advent of the Holy Prophet (pbuh) in specific passages from earlier texts - they are always heavily open to interpretation, and indeed have been corrupted - I prefer to stick to what is definitely revealed in the Qur'an and found in the authentic Hadiths and leave the rest with Allah.

Sure, the Qur'an makes the general point that the Holy Prophet (pbuh) was mentioned in the Torah and Injeel, but it doesn't go into specifics, so I prefer to leave it at that. And there is certainly no point made about the Holy Prophet (pbuh) being mentioned in other sacred texts (from other religions).

 

[McBell]

By that logic, a Catholic is a Muslim.

A lot of Muslims (at least in my area) will tell you they are.

 

[paarsurrey]

I'm personally highly sceptical of this practice of trying to find prophecies of the advent of the Holy Prophet (pbuh) in specific passages from earlier texts - they are always heavily open to interpretation, and indeed have been corrupted - I prefer to stick to what is definitely revealed in the Qur'an and found in the authentic Hadiths and leave the rest with Allah.

Sure, the Qur'an makes the general point that the Holy Prophet (pbuh) was mentioned in the Torah and Injeel, but it doesn't go into specifics, so I prefer to leave it at that. And there is certainly no point made about the Holy Prophet (pbuh) being mentioned in other sacred texts (from other religions).

There is no compulsion to understand, one is free to get it otherwise. I am not here to convince one. Enjoy one's understanding. Peace!
Feel free to see the following video, please?

Right, please? or one differs?

Regards

 

[The_Fisher_King]

There is no compulsion to understand, one is free to get it otherwise. I am not here to convince one. Enjoy one's understanding. Peace!
Feel free to see the following video, please?

Right, please? or one differs?

Regards

Can you sum up the content of the video?

 

[McBell]

Can you sum up the content of the video?

The speaker is claiming that Mohammed is the one prophesied in the Buddhist scriptures.

Here is a link to a written "version" of it.

MUHAMMAD (PBUH) IN BUDDHIST SCRIPTURES​

 

[paarsurrey]

The speaker is claiming that Mohammed is the one prophesied in the Buddhist scriptures.

Here is a link to a written "version" of it.

MUHAMMAD (PBUH) IN BUDDHIST SCRIPTURES​

Thanks for the written version of the video, please.
In this way, irrespective of the Buddhism people, to believe Buddha was a truthful messenger of G-d become an essential part of the Muslim belief as I understand. Right, please?
This is addition that Buddhas attributive name (not the proper name) is given in Quran as Zul-kifl, as I understand. Right, please?

Regards

 

[ManSinha]

There is no compulsion to understand, one is free to get it otherwise. I am not here to convince one. Enjoy one's understanding. Peace!
Feel free to see the following video, please?

Right, please? or one differs?

Regards

He is an idiot who has been debunked many times over - he would be arrested if he dared to go to India - he is hiding out in Indonesia or Malaysia - I have listened to many of his talks - he always twists what is known and tries to make Islam the best religion out there. He cannot even debate with a medical student who asked him searching questions. Much like you @paarsurrey - when challenged you run away.

 

[Tiberius]

God sent a long line of Messengers and Prophets with the same essential teachings re the Oneness of God and the correct way to relate to Them and one's fellow humans. These Messengers and Prophets (including Jesus, pbuh) were Muslims and that Message was/is the essence of Islam. Some of the original followers of those Messengers and Prophets remained true to their teachings, but most went astray, necessitating the sending of more Messengers and Prophets, culminating in Muhammad (pbuh) and the most up-to-date and protected-from-corruption version of the Message (contained in the Qur'an and authentic Hadiths). So a true follower of Jesus (pbuh) living at the same time or soon after him would have been a Muslim. But if we are referring to people living today, the Criterion for judging whether they are a Muslim or not is the Qur'an. In that sense, certainly a Catholic living today cannot be called a Muslim.

Please support your claim that Jesus was a Muslim.

And your whole argument seems to be nothing more than a No True Scotsman fallacy.

 

[The_Fisher_King]

The speaker is claiming that Mohammed is the one prophesied in the Buddhist scriptures.

Here is a link to a written "version" of it.

MUHAMMAD (PBUH) IN BUDDHIST SCRIPTURES​

Ah, thanks.

 

[The_Fisher_King]

Thanks for the written version of the video, please.
In this way, irrespective of the Buddhism people, to believe Buddha was a truthful messenger of G-d become an essential part of the Muslim belief as I understand. Right, please?
This is addition that Buddhas attributive name (not the proper name) is given in Quran as Zul-kifl, as I understand. Right, please?

Regards

I have already given my view of attempting to find prophecies of the advent of Muhammad (pbuh) in even the Bible, never mind other sacred texts of other religions. There is no definitive mention of Siddhartha Gautama in the Qur'an or Hadiths (who exactly Dhul-Kifl was is not completely clear, but I see no evidence that this refers to the Buddha). Even accepting that other religions have become corrupted, Buddhism seems so radically different from Islam as to make it very difficult to accept the Buddha as being one of the Messengers or Prophets of Islam. But Allah knows best.

 

[The_Fisher_King]

Please support your claim that Jesus was a Muslim.

And your whole argument seems to be nothing more than a No True Scotsman fallacy.

I thought I just did that. As a Muslim I believe that all the Messengers and Prophets of Islam - of whom Jesus (pbuh) was one - were Muslims, all bringing the same Message about the Oneness of God, worship of that God Alone and none else, the Day of Judgment/Resurrection, and how to relate to one's fellow humans (do good deeds). That is the essence of Islam, and is, so we believe, the heart of what Jesus (pbuh) taught. As Muslims, we reject anything in the Bible about Jesus (pbuh) that is not found in or contradicts what the Qur'an and the Hadiths say about him.

 

[paarsurrey]

Ah, thanks.

One may like to see the following on the subject also:

https://encrypted-vtbn1.gstatic.com...cNwawv_ow96rtsEMxbRkE3hpVSJqwd-CsKqDez75uHndk
and also read:
"Some of the Muslim Indian commentators have considered the prophet Dhu'l-i-Kifl mentioned in the Quran to be the Buddha of Kifl (Kapilavastu) and the Fig tree of Surah 95 to be the Bodhi tree under which the Buddha recieved his illumination."
#3A-ManESL
Buddha in the Qur'an?

Right, please?

Regards

 

[The_Fisher_King]

One may like to see the following on the subject also:

https://encrypted-vtbn1.gstatic.com...cNwawv_ow96rtsEMxbRkE3hpVSJqwd-CsKqDez75uHndk
and also read:
"Some of the Muslim Indian commentators have considered the prophet Dhu'l-i-Kifl mentioned in the Quran to be the Buddha of Kifl (Kapilavastu) and the Fig tree of Surah 95 to be the Bodhi tree under which the Buddha recieved his illumination."
#3A-ManESL
Buddha in the Qur'an?

Right, please?

Regards

I'm afraid I just don't buy it, for the reasons I mentioned in my previous posts.

 

[paarsurrey]

I'm afraid I just don't buy it, for the reasons I mentioned in my previous posts.

I am not selling anything, and one is not buying anything. Rather we are doing tadabbir fil Quran, and there is no harm in it. Right, please?

Regards
____________

[38:30]
کِتٰبٌ اَنۡزَلۡنٰہُ اِلَیۡکَ مُبٰرَکٌ لِّیَدَّبَّرُوۡۤا اٰیٰتِہٖ وَ لِیَتَذَکَّرَ اُولُوا الۡاَلۡبَابِ ﴿۳۰﴾
This is a Book which We have revealed to thee, full of blessings, that they may reflect over its verses, and that those gifted with understanding may take heed.

 

[Tiberius]

I thought I just did that. As a Muslim I believe that all the Messengers and Prophets of Islam - of whom Jesus (pbuh) was one - were Muslims, all bringing the same Message about the Oneness of God, worship of that God Alone and none else, the Day of Judgment/Resurrection, and how to relate to one's fellow humans (do good deeds). That is the essence of Islam, and is, so we believe, the heart of what Jesus (pbuh) taught. As Muslims, we reject anything in the Bible about Jesus (pbuh) that is not found in or contradicts what the Qur'an and the Hadiths say about him.

No, repeating your religion's claims does not count as evidence to support your religion. Particularly when you freely admit that anything that disagrees with what you believe is just ignored.

 

[Samael_Khan]

Science is a different domain, so it doesnt have to say anything about the truthful religion. Right,please?

Regards

Actually it does. Because the method that Science uses to determine truth is the most reliable method we know of. If the truthful religion rejects that method then you must offer a better one, and if there is no method to determine which religion is true, then why should anybody believe it?

Also, if a religion makes claims about reality which is contradicted by reality itself, then it hinders scientific progress.

 

[The_Fisher_King]

No, repeating your religion's claims does not count as evidence to support your religion. Particularly when you freely admit that anything that disagrees with what you believe is just ignored.

I'm not sure what else I can say - those are our beliefs about Jesus (pbuh). I'm not claiming that my religion's claims count as evidence to support my religion. I'm just trying to explain why I believe Jesus (pbuh) was a Muslim (which is always going to be wrt my religion's key texts, which we believe supersede all previous religion's texts).