Two bible passages that I think say you go right to heaven when you die.

[Kenny]

You’ve been on the forum long enough to know that the member to whom you responded is not only dismissive of Christian scripture, but also believes that theTanakh has been corrupted.

Yes, I know. For me is the issue that others that are reading it and I want to make sure they know that afore mentioned person has doesn't really understand what is being discussed.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

Actually there are more:

2 Corinthians 5:8
We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

Luke 23:43
And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Luke 16:22
And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

These are very interesting. To be present with the Lord does not necessarily mean in Heaven. Jesus says He will come back to earth. Maybe it means we will be present with him on earth. Jesus said the thief would be in paradise. Can you be sure paradise is the same as heaven? The begger went to Abraham's bosom. Are you sure that means heaven. The Bible says no man has ascended in heaven. That is very clear.

 

[Fool]

Two bible passages that I think say you go right to heaven when you die.

Here they are 2 Timothy 4:18 and 2 Peter 1:10-11.

What do you think?Do you agree?Or disagree?

Everlasting, or eternal, isn't something you go into. Everlasting is always present . It's something you're already in but aren't aware of until you wake from the dead. So spiritually those who believe are dead. Those who know are alive.

 

[Kenny]

These are very interesting. To be present with the Lord does not necessarily mean in Heaven. Jesus says He will come back to earth. Maybe it means we will be present with him on earth. Jesus said the thief would be in paradise. Can you be sure paradise is the same as heaven? The begger went to Abraham's bosom. Are you sure that means heaven. The Bible says no man has ascended in heaven. That is very clear.

Good points.

To agree with you on a point... you are right, Paradise is not heaven. It was a holding place of sorts until redemption had been paid for.

But I do find it consistent that to be absent is to be present in heaven. I find that because of additional point, those being:

Revelation 6:9-11
King James Version

Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

Notice the various points of this statement. There are people who have died (martyred) and are in heaven with Jesus while people are still on earth.

Rev. 5: 14 And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever.

Here there is 24 elders that are in heaven and not on earth.

Couple that with "absent in body present with the Lord" and others, I think there is a strong case that it is heaven (until Jerusalem comes down to earth and/or the 1000 year reign.

 

[Clara Tea]

Two bible passages that I think say you go right to heaven when you die.

Here they are 2 Timothy 4:18 and 2 Peter 1:10-11.

What do you think?Do you agree?Or disagree?

2 Timothy 4:1(KJV): "And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen."

2 Peter 1:10(KJV): "Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:"

2 Peter 1:11(KJV): "or so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ."

I prefer KJV because it is the eldest English version in common usage.

Evildoers looking for loopholes?

2Peter 1:4 (KJV): "escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust"

2Peter 1:5 (KJV): "giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;"

2Peter 1:6(KJV): " And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness"

Kindness and charity are also required to get into heaven.

If heaven allowed evil people, it would be an evil place. Rather, it has all of those qualifications (and maybe a few not mentioned). Heaven is an exclusive club, and not easy to join. Many of the preachers that you see on TV won't make it there. They might try to bribe their way in, but that won't work.

 

[Clara Tea]

Everlasting, or eternal, isn't something you go into. Everlasting is always present . It's something you're already in but aren't aware of until you wake from the dead. So spiritually those who believe are dead. Those who know are alive.

Spiritually dead in the afterlife until accepting rules (diligence, faith, virtue, knowledge, temperance, patience, Godliness, kindness, and charity). Godliness might be difficult. Only once rules are accepted will we be let into heaven. It is not a place for evildoers.

 

[Clara Tea]

You’ve been on the forum long enough to know that the member to whom you responded is not only dismissive of Christian scripture, but also believes that theTanakh has been corrupted.

What does the bible say about saying bad things about someone behind their back? When you write to someone else about the character of another, you don't give them a chance to explain. Please read the website below.

What Does the Bible Say About Talking Behind A Friends Back?

 

[Clara Tea]

The JW teaching on death is that the dead go out of existence but someone who is asleep is actually still alive and can be conscious for at least part of the time.
The Ecclesiastes and Psalms teaching on death is that the dead know nothing about what happens on the earth and that the dead go to that place (iow they still exist in that place).



Teaching that the dead are alive somewhere else is not saying that the resurrection has already occurred.
The resurrection is when the soul is raised with a body.



If the Devil did that then the Devil also must have inspired the writers of that story to tell us that this demon (the Devil's angel) was Samuel and to avoid saying it was a demon.



You are misrepresenting the teachings of regular Christianity, and you should know better. No wonder there is confusion around about these things.
Up until now the souls of the dead go to sheol/hades in the Greek. This place is a place of comfort and rest for some and unrest for others.
When Jesus rose from the dead He freed many in hades and those in Christ who died after that go to be with Jesus according to the teaching of Paul.
This is really quite simple and you should learn it so that you do not misrepresent in the future.



You should not be explaining away God's word. God's word in that story is that Samuel came up and spoke to Saul.
Thank God for His word and listen to it instead of to the reasonings of men who deny that word.



It is plain that the priests and magicians of the gods of Egypt were not using the power of Yahweh.
Instead of asking "why doesn't the account tell us?" maybe the question should be "why does the account tell us who came up from the grave?"
God can use anyone for His purposes, even a witch, and Saul, going to a witch, would be just as guilty whether God was using the witch or not.
I will give you this, it is possible that a reason God prophesied Saul's death (accurately) through Samuel is that Saul came to enquire of a witch.

 

[Clara Tea]

"When Jesus rose from the dead He freed many in hades"

I sometimes wonder why all-powerful and all-knowing God would allow Satan and hell to exist. Maybe this is exactly why? Maybe Satan is (probably inadvertently) doing God's work, by roasting souls until they repent, then allowing them to leave hell and go to heaven?

People think of heaven as eternal salvation. But isn't it true that we could be cast from heaven into hell? Lucifer was.

Some say that newborn babies automatically go to heaven. But suppose they have sinful thoughts once they have been there for a while. Can't they be cast into hell?

Heaven, then, is likely not a permanent residence. One must obey the rules even if one makes it in.

What about gray areas? Can an angel help mortals battle evil on earth, or is that bending the rules (perhaps rules of non-interference, if there are such rules). Stargate (sci fi TV) made that point about ascended beings.

 

[Clara Tea]

These are very interesting. To be present with the Lord does not necessarily mean in Heaven. Jesus says He will come back to earth. Maybe it means we will be present with him on earth. Jesus said the thief would be in paradise. Can you be sure paradise is the same as heaven? The begger went to Abraham's bosom. Are you sure that means heaven. The Bible says no man has ascended in heaven. That is very clear.

"Abraham's bosom".....I thought that Christians frowned on such things.

 

[Fool]

Spiritually dead in the afterlife until accepting rules (diligence, faith, virtue, knowledge, temperance, patience, Godliness, kindness, and charity). Godliness might be difficult. Only once rules are accepted will we be let into heaven. It is not a place for evildoers.

there is no afterlife.

there is just life in some other form. basically life is everlasting. the form isn't

 

[firedragon]

Two bible passages that I think say you go right to heaven when you die.

Here they are 2 Timothy 4:18 and 2 Peter 1:10-11.

What do you think?Do you agree?Or disagree?

Who authored any of these books?

 

[Frank Goad]

The Bible is repeatedly inconsistent on what happens to people in the afterlife, Frank, as I showed you in my previous replies when you inquired about specific scriptures that illustrate the afterlife in your other threads (see here as an example). I've demonstrated time and time again how the Bible has conflicting verses about the afterlife. And instead of rehashing everything I've already said, I'm re-posting my reply from your thread about people believing that spirits were underground when they died. But before I re-post that reply, I'd like to reiterate its last paragraph and ask you to tell me your thoughts on the questions I asked you then. It is as follows:

As I've demonstrated with the multiple scriptures I quoted, Frank, the Bible isn't exactly clear on what happens in the afterlife. Do human spirits ascend from the ground, as the verses you cited imply, or do some human spirits ascend from the sea and Hades and then face judgment, or do all human spirits face judgment immediately after death and all believers in Christ are immediately in his presence after death, or do human spirits (believers and unbelievers) fall asleep in the grave to be resurrected later in the end times?

Now, here is the rest of what I wrote in my other post (click here).

The scriptures you cited support my opinion that the Bible's depiction of the afterlife contradicts itself. For instance, Hebrews 9:27 implies that a person faces judgment immediately after death, and 1 Corinthians 5:8 implies that a Christian who dies is instantly in the presence of the Lord. However, Revelation 20:13 conflicts with Hebrews 9:27 by stating that "the sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them," and "each individual was judged according to what they had done."

Furthermore, 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 conflicts with 1 Corinthians 5:8 because it says, "13 Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. 14 For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever."

Moreover, Matthew 27:51-53 implies soul sleep for believers. It says, "Then, behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth quaked, and the rocks were split, and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; and coming out of the graves after His resurrection, they went into the holy city and appeared to many."

Daniel 12:2 implies soul sleep for both believers and unbelievers, which conflicts with Hebrews 9:27 and 1 Corinthians 5:8. It states, "And many of those who slumber in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to disgrace and everlasting contempt." 2 Chronicles 32:33 also implies soul sleep: "And Hezekiah slept with his fathers; and they buried him in the upper part of the tombs of the sons of David; and all Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem did him honor at his death." And Manasseh, his son, reigned in his place. " There are other similar verses: 2 Chronicles 33:20; 1 Kings 15:8; 1 Kings 16:28; 2 Kings 13:13; and 2 Kings 14:29.

And John 11:11-15 implies soul sleep as well. It states, "After saying these things, he said to them, "Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep, but I will go to awaken him." The disciples said to him, "Lord, if he has fallen asleep, he will recover." Now Jesus had spoken of his death, but they thought that he meant to take rest in sleep. Then Jesus told them plainly, "Lazarus has died, and for your sake I am glad that I was not there, so that you may believe." But let us go to him. " Notice that Jesus did not say that Lazarus' spirit went directly to heaven after death and was in His presence or that Lazarus' spirit faced judgment immediately after death or that his spirit came up from under the ground. He said that Lazarus had fallen asleep and that he would go wake up Lazarus, but Lazarus was dead.

Frank why do you keep PMing me with this same subject? You know my position, and the Scriptures I use to support it….

Death was / is the penalty for sin (Genesis 3:19; Romans 5:12; Romans 6:23). It’s never been a ‘gateway to another realm.’ The promised Resurrection for mankind will restore life, but it hasn’t happened yet….


“The living are conscious that they will die, but the dead know nothing at all…” — Ecclesiastes 9:5. Cf. Psalms 146:3-4

People who have died are just like the animals who’ve died. — Ecclesiastes 3:19-20

Jesus himself likened death to a “sleep”. (John 11:11-14; Did Lazarus say he had been somewhere else?)

Paul implied the dead are “asleep”. More than once.— (1 Corinthians 15:6; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17) @Sgt. Pepper posted these and others. I appreciate that, but I don’t agree with the assessment that the Bible contradicts itself. Much is just misapplied. Such as 1 Thessalonians 4:17, which many think discusses a rapture… actually Paul was discussing the Resurrection, as is seen in vss13,14,&16. (“Still alive” in vs17 means living “when he comes”, actually during the time of Christ’s “presence”, in 1 Corinthians 15:22-23.
Notice that vs22 says “all will be made alive.” They are not alive immediately, or automatically.

Actually, take note, teaching that the dead are ‘alive somewhere else,’ is saying “the resurrection has already occurred,” which is ‘straying from the truth.’ (1 Timothy 2:18) And how many religions teach such a doctrine? But they’ve “strayed from the truth.”
It’s to be expected though, since according to 1 John 5:19 this “whole world” is under the Devil’s control.

He wants people to believe inaccuracies… that is why we have warnings in the Bible, of what to avoid. One way the Devil misleads, is not just by teachings, but by actively taking a role and getting his angels to imposter the dead, like the case with King Saul in 1 Samuel 28.

(Vs19 states that “Samuel” said to Sail that ‘tomorrow you will be with me.’ Why would wicked King Saul be with righteous Samuel? If the dead are living, wouldn’t Saul ‘go to torment’, while Samuel would be ‘in heaven’?)

Let’s reason on this incident…. while living, Samuel refused to have any contact w Saul. Why would he do so now? And through a witch, someone acting in ways God’s Word condemned?! (Deuteronomy 18:10-12) The truth is, he wouldn’t have!
When he’s resurrected, he’ll find this out, discovering that his person was impostered by wicked spirits! He won’t be happy with that!

You might say, “Well, if it was the demons - or a demon - why doesn’t the account tell us? You could ask the same thing about the events in Exodus 7…nowhere does it tell us that Satan was the power behind the magic priests’ staffs turning into snakes. But all we need to know, is how Jehovah feels towards magic & inquiring of the dead, such a hefty penalty! Death!

The Scripture bear out that there’s genuine power behind these activities— that’s why the Scriptures (the Bible) are so heavily under attack in this corrupt world… according to 2 Corinthians 4:4, this system is temporarily the Devil’s.

IMO, It will be gone soon.

Sorry for waxing rhapsodic, I get carried away at times!

Best wishes to you and yours.

I read both of your posts.And am confused.

Please explain.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

Good points.

To agree with you on a point... you are right, Paradise is not heaven. It was a holding place of sorts until redemption had been paid for.

But I do find it consistent that to be absent is to be present in heaven. I find that because of additional point, those being:

Revelation 6:9-11
King James Version

Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

Notice the various points of this statement. There are people who have died (martyred) and are in heaven with Jesus while people are still on earth.

Rev. 5: 14 And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever.

Here there is 24 elders that are in heaven and not on earth.

Couple that with "absent in body present with the Lord" and others, I think there is a strong case that it is heaven (until Jerusalem comes down to earth and/or the 1000 year reign.

Just a couple points. In Rev. 6:9 the souls are "under the alter". It does not say the alter is in heaven. In Rev 5:14 the 24 fell down and worshipped. It does not say they were in Heaven. Remember the Bible does clearly say NO MAN has ascended to heaven.Do you believe that or is the Bible wrong?

 

[Kenny]

Just a couple points. In Rev. 6:9 the souls are "under the alter". It does not say the alter is in heaven. In Rev 5:14 the 24 fell down and worshipped. It does not say they were in Heaven. Remember the Bible does clearly say NO MAN has ascended to heaven.Do you believe that or is the Bible wrong?

And where is the "altar"? If you read the context, it is heaven. Please read the verses before.
"no man has ascended to heaven" is before the resurrection. We are in post resurrection.

 

[Truth in love]

Two bible passages that I think say you go right to heaven when you die.

Here they are 2 Timothy 4:18 and 2 Peter 1:10-11.

What do you think?Do you agree?Or disagree?

I would say that our spirit goes to a place, paradise, prison etc. that is not the same as the final heavens.

 

[syo]

Two bible passages that I think say you go right to heaven when you die.

Here they are 2 Timothy 4:18 and 2 Peter 1:10-11.

What do you think?Do you agree?Or disagree?

I disagree.

 

[InChrist]

Two bible passages that I think say you go right to heaven when you die.

Here they are 2 Timothy 4:18 and 2 Peter 1:10-11.

What do you think?Do you agree?Or disagree?

Yes, I agree. Those scriptures, among others, show that the soul/spirit of believers, those who belong to Jesus Christ, go directly to be with the Lord when they physically die and leave this earth. At the time of the Resurrection their soul/spirit will be receive their own, but new eternal, incorruptible body.
There are no contradictions in the scriptures concerning this subject when the Bible is rightly divided and read in context, always asking; who, what, when, where and why, as one reads.

 

[PruePhillip]

Two bible passages that I think say you go right to heaven when you die.

Here they are 2 Timothy 4:18 and 2 Peter 1:10-11.

What do you think?Do you agree?Or disagree?

Why didn't you add the verses to your post?

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

And where is the "altar"? If you read the context, it is heaven. Please read the verses before.
"no man has ascended to heaven" is before the resurrection. We are in post resurrection.

Sorry but I see nothing in the verses before or after John 3:13 that says anything about anyone going to heaven. And nothing about pre or post resurrection. Can you quote ANY verse that says ANYONE has gone to heaven? Except Jesus. This is exactly what Satan wants. For people to read a very plain and clear verse and try their best to find some way to say it does not mean what it says. No man has ascended to heaven except Jesus. This verse was written down by someone after the time of Jesus. If it was not true that person would have said that it only applied pre resurrection.